If you’re still sourcing retail, you’re leaving serious profit on the table. This episode breaks down how interior designers can increase margins, elevate client experience, and streamline sourcing by partnering with the right wholesale vendors.
Rebecca sits down with John Genova, Chief Sales & Marketing Officer at Dovetail Furniture, to talk about building strong trade relationships, choosing reliable vendor partners, attending furniture markets, and leveraging wholesale programs to grow long-term profit.
John brings more than 30 years of industry experience and shares practical advice on what designers should look for in a vendor, from showroom experience to customer service to website tools that save you hours.
This is the episode every designer needs if they’re ready to stop shopping retail and start running a more profitable, professional design business.
episode highlights
- Why designers should stop sourcing retail (and what it’s costing you)
- How wholesale vendor partnerships create real profit margins
- The importance of attending trade shows like High Point
- How to choose vendors that align with your style, price point & values
- What to look for in a vendor’s website before partnering
- MAP pricing: what it is and how it protects your margins
- Why “go-to” vendor partners streamline your workflow
- How the industry has shifted post-pandemic, and what it means for designers
- The long-term power of partnership vs. one-off orders
- The behind-the-scenes of Dovetail’s trade program and designer support
Episode Resources
- Learn more about Dovetail Furniture.
This episode was sponsored by Dovetail Furniture.
Read the Full Transcript ⬇️
00;00;00;01 – 00;00;23;10
John Genova
For me if I was a designer starting out this journey. How do I establish trade in wholesale accounts with vendor partners? The first thing I do is go to a trade show. I think it’s massively important. I think they get immersed in the industry itself. They start speaking the language. They start understanding the programs and the opportunities that are available.
00;00;23;13 – 00;00;26;09
Rebecca Hay
All right.
00;00;26;12 – 00;00;55;12
Rebecca Hay
I’m Rebecca Hay, and I’ve built a successful interior design business by Trial and error podcast online courses and so many freaking books. Over the last decade, I’ve grown from an insecure student to having false starts to careers, and now I’m finally in the place where I want to be. Throughout my journey, it’s been pretty obvious that I’m passionate about business and helping other entrepreneurs do the same.
00;00;55;15 – 00;01;08;09
Rebecca Hay
Each week, I’ll share tangible takeaways from my own experience and the experiences of other badass women to help you build your confidence and change your business.
00;01;08;11 – 00;01;28;19
Rebecca Hay
Hey hey hey, it’s Rebecca and you are listening to Resilient by Design. You are probably wondering, should I go to High Point Market or should I go to Dallas? Should I go to Vegas? Where should I go? How do I find vendors? I want to make more money wholesale. Like I want to resell products. I’ve been listening to Rebecca.
00;01;28;21 – 00;01;55;15
Rebecca Hay
Hopefully today’s conversation is all about that. You know, it’s interesting. Before I introduce my guest, a conversation I talk about a lot on the podcast is reselling products and adding that as a revenue stream to your business, whether you are a few years into running your business or you’re seasoned and you’ve been doing this a long time, there’s always room to squeeze out a little bit more profit from the designers I speak with.
00;01;55;16 – 00;02;20;09
Rebecca Hay
Not all of you are sourcing wholesale products. You’re still going to your local shops and retail stores. This episode is a great reminder that you can connect with wholesalers, but also we’re going to help you today in this episode. Find the right wholesalers for you because there’s a lot of them and it can be really challenging to decide who do I want to partner with.
00;02;20;17 – 00;02;38;07
Rebecca Hay
And one of the things we talk about in the episode that I feel very strongly about is your team having trade partners. It’s no different than you would like to work with the same contractor, or you’ve got a great tile center, or I need my wallpaper guy to install the murals because he’s the best, and I won’t let anyone else do it.
00;02;38;10 – 00;03;05;06
Rebecca Hay
It’s the same when it comes to furniture. Having those go to partners where you know you can get the product you need for your clients, you know what’s going to be the right price point, and you know you’re going to make money. Interestingly enough, there’s a little controversial moment, and I’m interested, if you guys hear it, where I push back a little bit on our guest because I think there’s always room to make more money, but I’ll let you guys listen to it.
00;03;05;09 – 00;03;28;24
Rebecca Hay
My guest today is John Genova, and he is the chief sales and marketing officer at Dovetail Furniture, where he has helped lead the company’s growth and brand evolution in the furniture industry. A lot has changed for them in the last 5 or 6 years since he’s been there, and we talk about that today. He’s had more than 33 years of experience in the design industry.
00;03;28;28 – 00;03;57;23
Rebecca Hay
He is known for being strategic. He has a passion for design and definitely a passion for customer service. He loves to travel. He’s from California and you can usually find him on the golf course, mentoring up and coming talent in the industry. He is a great man to have this conversation with. One of the areas that John and I discuss is the power of a good website, not for designers, but for your suppliers, he shares what dovetail has done for their customers with their website.
00;03;57;23 – 00;04;16;07
Rebecca Hay
It’s actually pretty amazing. And you’re going to want to go check out their website. It’s Dovetail home.com. I think you’re going to enjoy this conversation with dovetail, learning a little bit more behind the scenes of the industry when it comes to wholesalers and suppliers. And we actually talk about what it was like ten years ago and how it’s changed.
00;04;16;07 – 00;04;21;02
Rebecca Hay
So listen to this episode and enjoy it.
00;04;21;04 – 00;04;39;13
Rebecca Hay
I’m so excited to have this conversation with you, John, because wholesale partnering with vendors, I mean, this is where the money is at for designers, and there’s so many designers listening who aren’t doing this. What are your thoughts on that? When I say that?
00;04;39;17 – 00;05;07;21
John Genova
Well, I think you’re exactly right. And I think that the opportunity for designers to increase their margins, increase their opportunities from a product standpoint through various vendors, rather than just their local sources, gives them a competitive advantage in their marketplace, not only from a cost perspective, but also from options they can provide and differentiate themselves from their competition when they’re bidding for jobs, when they’re doing jobs.
00;05;07;21 – 00;05;20;24
John Genova
And so I think there’s a tremendous opportunity and Dovetail Furniture has absolutely jumped into the design and trade world both feet forward and supporting them the best that we can.
00;05;20;27 – 00;05;41;04
Rebecca Hay
Yeah, I love that. And I’m excited to learn a little bit more about dovetail specifically and have this conversation about partnering with these brands and what that looks like. It’s interesting that we’re having this conversation today. I just was on the phone. We are in the process of filling up my mastermind, and I’m interviewing and having conversations with the women who are applying to be inside my my mastermind.
00;05;41;09 – 00;05;57;17
Rebecca Hay
And one of the women said to me, do you know how many of the other women in our group are buying wholesale? And I was like, oh no, I did not ask them that. That was not part of my intake form. Right. And she said to me, which I was, was, I’m so glad that she shared this with me.
00;05;57;18 – 00;06;25;14
Rebecca Hay
She said, I’m actually I’m more interested in being in groups of women who are also doing that. And she said she’d been in groups of designers where a lot of the designers were just shopping retail in their towns, in their cities. And so she said it was a different level of conversation. And so I’m so excited to talk about this with you today, because there is, I think a lot of fear unknown, and it can be actually very intimidating.
00;06;25;17 – 00;06;26;11
John Genova
I agree.
00;06;26;14 – 00;06;43;03
Rebecca Hay
So how do you identify who a good vendor partner will be? Is it a trip to High Point Market? Is it asking your friends like how do you find out there’s so many furniture companies? Are so many suppliers out there, how do you figure out which one’s going to be the best in alignment with you and your business?
00;06;43;10 – 00;07;09;26
John Genova
That is probably the biggest inhibitor for many of the designers out there is. Where do I even start? Yeah, I’m a big proponent of the trade shows. I think that the trade shows offer a place for specifically designed to go and see so many brands in one place, hear their story, hear their program, see their products in person.
00;07;09;29 – 00;07;30;24
John Genova
Right. I mean, I can put up a bunch of beautiful pictures about my product, but you don’t know how it’s really constructed, how it really sets what the materials are used, what level it is. I mean, we can all make images look like it’s a $50,000 sofa, but is it really? And that’s fine because every brand fills a different niche.
00;07;30;24 – 00;07;52;21
John Genova
Just know what the expectations are when you see those brand. So for me, if I was a designer starting out this journey, how do I establish trade in wholesale accounts with vendor partners? The first thing I do is go to a trade show. I think it’s massively important. I think they get immersed in the industry itself. They start speaking the language.
00;07;52;21 – 00;08;11;25
John Genova
They start understanding the programs and the opportunities that are available to them. That would be my very first step, and obviously word of mouth and friends will point you in the right direction. You know, I’m sure they all have friends that are interior designers and who they had good experiences with, who they didn’t, who was a help them and who did not.
00;08;11;25 – 00;08;25;28
John Genova
And so that would be second tier on my list. I would go and find my vendors at a trade show and then come back and say, hey, have you ever worked with this person? And they say, yes, then dig a little deeper. And that would be my very first step in this process.
00;08;26;02 – 00;08;40;28
Rebecca Hay
You know, I actually really like that advice because I feel as though many of us do the opposite. Like, you know, we’ve got a project what happens for designers. And I’m sure, you know, this is we get a new project, we’re really excited, we start diving in, and all of a sudden there’s this frantic energy. Where am I going to source?
00;08;40;28 – 00;09;00;17
Rebecca Hay
And then we don’t have the time. And so we’re like, well, we’ll just go back to, you know, that retail store we’ll just go for to that person again, because it’s quick and it’s easy. And I’ve got another project on the pipeline and this other one’s going into construction, and I got to make a decision. And so we, we live in this chaos so we can quickly ask a friend, hey, where did you get your last sofa from?
00;09;00;17 – 00;09;19;08
Rebecca Hay
Or I love that coffee table. You had that last part. Where was it from? And they might send you a contact. But the reality is, until you go to a trade show, the only one that I’ve really been to is High Point Market. So that’s my point of reference. I love going to market until you go there, especially if you don’t have any wholesale connections.
00;09;19;15 – 00;09;40;08
Rebecca Hay
You actually don’t know. Like you said, the quality you don’t actually know the style because let’s be honest, not all furniture suppliers are making furniture in the same style. When you go to High Point or any. Yeah, right. You see like, oh, they’re modern or they’re more traditional or whoa, they’re ornate. Like there’s, you’ve really they’ve got there’s something for everyone.
00;09;40;11 – 00;09;56;18
Rebecca Hay
But when you go you really get to see, touch and feel. And for me, the first time I went, I didn’t even know the names of any of these suppliers. I’d see a light, be like, oh, I put that in a project last year, and I bought it through my local lighting shop. I didn’t realize it was this company.
00;09;56;21 – 00;09;59;24
Rebecca Hay
It’s so impactful. It’s such great advice.
00;09;59;27 – 00;10;19;21
John Genova
I agree, and you get exposed to more than what your local design showroom or retailer decides they want. In their showroom. You get to see a bigger breadth of product so you know, not only developing relationships, you’re also getting a much more exposure to more product. When you go to these shows.
00;10;19;27 – 00;10;43;11
Rebecca Hay
And, you know, also you can talk to your clients. Let’s not forget the client aspect of it. This actually elevates you in your client’s eyes because you can say, I went to the furniture market and I sat in this and I really liked the padding on the seat, or I like the the tufting and this detail and the quality of this company that I’ve sourced from for you is actually superior to the what the what.
00;10;43;11 – 00;10;53;00
Rebecca Hay
That thing you see in the magazine there that’s this other supplier and their quality is not the same like that. So you can talk like that in front of your client makes you look super professional in my opinion.
00;10;53;03 – 00;11;15;14
John Genova
I agree 100%. I think that trade shows for everybody, designers and this to me, I call the trade shows the Super Bowl of our industry. Like it’s where everybody that wants to participate in this industry should be going because there’s something to be gained and learned and you just get a lot out of it. It’s my number one advice for people go to these shows.
00;11;15;14 – 00;11;16;13
John Genova
It’s important.
00;11;16;15 – 00;11;42;01
Rebecca Hay
Yeah I love it okay. So we also have designers listening who are like, yeah, I know. I go, I go to the trade shows, I see all the vendors and they’re feeling a little overwhelmed by the sheer volume of options. I’m just curious, like, what is something that you see when designers go to these trade shows and they’re trying to decide between, let’s say, a dovetail or something else, how do they decide where to put their money at?
00;11;42;01 – 00;11;58;11
Rebecca Hay
Because I know I’ve been to all these showrooms and I’m like, well, now all the sofas start to look the same. And then I start to realize within certain tiers, there’s not always a huge difference in quality. So how do you decide who to partner with, who you want to go to in order from?
00;11;58;14 – 00;12;19;28
John Genova
That is the perfect next step, right? You found five vendors and we all are offering something. Let’s. When I say similar, I mean we’re all within the same price range quality. Maybe we fit the look of your project. Who greets you the best at market when you walk into that showroom? How do you feel when you enter that showroom?
00;12;19;28 – 00;12;38;24
John Genova
Do you feel like you’re welcome there? There was a genuine interest by the people that agreed to at the front door, the sales rep that was assigned to you, how did they interact? I look at a lot of times in groups like that, how are they treating everybody in that showroom? Like, what is the vibe in that showroom?
00;12;38;24 – 00;13;01;01
John Genova
Because ultimately we want to we’re going to have to be your partner. We’re your partner in your transaction. So you’re going to rely on. So all things equal, who do you want to do business with should be the determining factor. You know, do they have programs to support me. Are they going to help me if there’s a claim that needs to be made, you know, all those business points become the next thing.
00;13;01;01 – 00;13;19;27
John Genova
And for me, it starts with how do we treat you? And it’s a really important thing that we do at dovetail. And something I preach to our sales team is every single customer that walks in is the most important customer that walks into our door. Whether they can do $10 million a year with me, or they’re only going to do $2,000 a year with me, it all matters.
00;13;19;27 – 00;13;39;28
John Genova
And we try to convey that. And I think that’s something your designers should look for, is how am I treated when I come into that showroom? Now the industry is definitely pushing and leaning into the design and trade. So fortunately for designers, they’re going to be treated much better than they were ten years ago. There was a time when there were signs in the showroom that said, no designers allowed.
00;13;40;00 – 00;13;52;25
Rebecca Hay
I’ve heard about that. Yeah. Now let’s just take a beat here because I have something I want to add to what you were just saying. I want to have a question for you, but before that, can we just talk about that? Why was this a trade show that was just for furniture retailers? Is that why?
00;13;52;27 – 00;14;15;23
John Genova
Well, I think it had a lot to do with the notion of the manufacturers. And I think this was, you know, when the industry, from a distribution standpoint on our site was smaller and they had to protect their retail business, right. The retailers would put a lot of pressure on us saying, you’re selling the designers who are our customers, right.
00;14;15;24 – 00;14;42;14
John Genova
And so there was a little bit of a fight of it would be like me now saying, I’m going to go sell your your design clients. You’d be like, whoa, don’t do that. I don’t like commerce. So I think there was a lot of time where that was probably the big friction point of if you sold the designers, the retailers would say, I don’t want to buy you because they can bypass me, which is basically what’s happened in a lot of cases.
00;14;42;15 – 00;14;59;07
John Genova
But but that’s just the natural evolution of the business. It had to go that direction. And the design trade has grown and blossomed so much that it’s a it’s a force you cannot ignore. On our side, especially if you’re in this more style oriented middle to upper end price points.
00;14;59;10 – 00;15;12;28
Rebecca Hay
Yeah, it’s no different than I can relate to. You know, I hear designers say to me all the time, like, how do I stop my clients from shopping? Me and like, they just went ahead and they bought it from the store themselves. Or I get a call from the store saying, your client’s here. Can I pass on your discount?
00;15;13;01 – 00;15;14;09
Rebecca Hay
That’s happened to me.
00;15;14;11 – 00;15;14;23
John Genova
You know.
00;15;14;26 – 00;15;32;24
Rebecca Hay
It’s the same idea. It’s like you don’t want to be sourcing from these local places because you don’t want the client to just go and buy it themselves. Yeah, well, the great thing now is that we can go to these trade shows and direct to companies like dovetail and say, hey, I want to resell your product to my client.
00;15;32;28 – 00;15;44;20
Rebecca Hay
My client can’t access you. My client’s not like, oh, I’ll just walk in on Sunday afternoon. And that is beautiful. Designers, if you’re listening, come back to me like, this is beautiful.
00;15;44;22 – 00;15;53;28
John Genova
We have no interest in selling the consumer. That is your job where you have expertise and we do not do so. That is not something we have any interest in doing.
00;15;54;01 – 00;16;14;22
Rebecca Hay
Totally. And that’s one of the perks of having these partners, these wholesale partners. And I love this idea of partnership because you said something earlier I wanted to come back to how do you decide right who to partner with? And it’s about the relationship. And you talked about, I don’t remember your exact wording, but along the lines of when something goes wrong, are they going to have your back?
00;16;14;24 – 00;16;33;23
Rebecca Hay
Are they going to work with you? And it’s no different than, you know, having a local drapery installer. You know, I have my go to Draper installer. I use him with every project. Are there other Draper installers that are maybe cheaper? Yep, definitely. I’ve I’ve seen them and I’ve heard of them. Are there other Draper installers who maybe I can get on, you know whatever.
00;16;33;27 – 00;16;52;04
Rebecca Hay
Maybe. Maybe. But he’s my guy and he has my back, so something’s wrong in the Heights. Wrong. He’ll work with me to adjust it. He’s not pointing fingers, saying, send them back to whoever made them. I’ll come back in a few weeks like he is troubleshooting with me. I imagine it’s the same thing when it comes to ordering wholesale.
00;16;52;06 – 00;17;15;00
John Genova
It’s 100% the same thing. We’re not looking for orders with interior designers or retailers or anybody else. We’re looking for partnership, long term partnership. There’s a cost to maintaining and acquiring and building a customer base from our end. And while getting an order is super nice, what we want to build is a lifetime of orders with you and build that.
00;17;15;06 – 00;17;32;25
John Genova
And part of that is there’s a responsibility on our end to do that. So the longer we do business with with certain clients, the more we stay with you, the more you stay with us. It’s easier and easier to just offer more and more services and benefits and support that we can do for you. That’s 100% how we feel about it.
00;17;32;26 – 00;17;38;08
John Genova
We we’re really looking to build long term partnerships with our with our designers.
00;17;38;10 – 00;17;57;05
Rebecca Hay
Yeah. And I think, you know, when you find a great company like dovetail and you and your, you know, they become your go to and maybe there’s a few things that you can’t get there. So you go to other vendors. It’s been my experience over the course of my business that I tell my team, like, as you start to grow your business, you’ve got now, you’ve got team members sourcing for you.
00;17;57;05 – 00;18;16;25
Rebecca Hay
And I say, these are my go to vendors. You need to start sourcing here. If you can find what we want there, then come to me and we can look further afield, because I have learned firsthand, and I know there’s other designers who feel as if you’re listening where you’re like, well, I’m going to try that that company this time because I don’t know, someone else used them and it looks really good.
00;18;16;25 – 00;18;29;16
Rebecca Hay
Or what about that company? And then you end up splitting. No one company or supplier knows you that well or has your back, and it ends up being actually more effort than it’s worth.
00;18;29;19 – 00;18;51;05
John Genova
For sure you’re spending now. You know, a place where, like dovetail, which we consider ourselves whole home, where you can get a lot of when it can’t. We don’t give you everything for your house, but you can order a lot of different products from us where instead of buying from five different vendors and managing five different orders and shipments and lead times, you can order it in one spot.
00;18;51;05 – 00;19;21;23
John Genova
That’s a big convenience for a lot of designers who don’t have the staff to support, you know, to do all this. And like you said at the beginning, you’re you’re they’re chaotic. You’re plugging and putting out a fire over here and finishing this project over here. Do you really want to be chasing down five different orders or seven different orders when you can just maybe you work with two that’s, you know, maybe they’re not to be all one place, but two different places that’s going to simplify your life and make the pain points of your process much smoother.
00;19;21;25 – 00;19;48;03
Rebecca Hay
Totally. Because also a lot of these designers are also managing, you know, tile and flooring and plumbing and, you know, they’re getting all of that from different vendors. So if you can get your furnishings and the decorative elements from fewer sources, it makes your life easier. I know a lot of designers are hesitant to even resell products to their clients because the fear of the headache, the fear of, well, you’ll make more money, but it’s going to be so much more work.
00;19;48;03 – 00;19;55;16
Rebecca Hay
I don’t know if it’s worth it. This is one of the ways to kind of mitigate that amount of work is have a few great people that you work with.
00;19;55;18 – 00;20;08;28
John Genova
Yeah, just narrow in on a few that you trust that you like, that you can get the styles that you like and work with them to get what you need. That would be my advice. There.
00;20;09;00 – 00;20;15;19
Rebecca Hay
So you’ve been in the industry for a while now. How many years have you been with dovetail or just in the interior design industry as a whole?
00;20;15;22 – 00;20;37;11
John Genova
I’ve been in the furniture industry since I graduated college. My family was in the business and I went straight to work for them when I was 22 years old, so that was 30 some odd years ago. I’ve been with dovetail for six years. It’s been an incredible journey. To be here. This is an incredible company that is really dedicated to the trading design community.
00;20;37;13 – 00;20;43;20
Rebecca Hay
That’s really cool. You’ve seen trends come and go, right? And all the 30 plus years.
00;20;43;22 – 00;20;44;11
John Genova
Have.
00;20;44;14 – 00;20;56;03
Rebecca Hay
I’m interested in what’s the shift you’ve seen since the pandemic? Has there been a shift in how designers are sourcing products compared to five years ago, or the ordering, like what’s shifted in the last five years?
00;20;56;03 – 00;21;23;11
John Genova
Well, I will tell you that the trade and design community exploded during and right after the pandemic. I mean, the level of new people coming into the marketplace, the level of of jobs that they were getting was clearly increasing. Now we’re seeing a little leveling right now, but in general, the explosion in the size of this community is what’s really changed.
00;21;23;11 – 00;21;28;09
John Genova
I think over the last 4 to 5 years in this community. It’s enormous at this point.
00;21;28;17 – 00;21;51;29
Rebecca Hay
That’s so interesting. It’s funny, I remember going to High Point. I think it was how I want to say early 2021. It was right after the total lockdowns and where no one was traveling, and it was so quiet and people were still nervous to travel and then going a couple of years later and it was booming, busy, so filled with people.
00;21;52;06 – 00;22;16;25
Rebecca Hay
And I just thought, whoa, what a total 180 from just like, obviously I went at a time that was not normal. I had only been once prior to the pandemic. So I don’t really I don’t have much of a reference. But yeah, I can see that. And I even just coming into my world, the designers who are who are leaving corporate, starting an interior design firm, you know, I’ve been helping those designers over the last few years of so many new designers out there.
00;22;16;25 – 00;22;18;04
Rebecca Hay
It’s really cool.
00;22;18;09 – 00;22;40;05
John Genova
It’s fantastic. It’s super energizing. The interactions for us are different at market with an interior designer or in a retailer. You know, I think in a better way. It’s a different kind of conversation, especially for a company that leads with design like that is we lean into being on trend in design and fashion and, you know, trying to push our products.
00;22;40;07 – 00;23;06;00
John Genova
You know, when you have a conversation with retailers, it is a little bit about design. Can we sell the price point in this? When we talk to designers, it’s always about the design. It’s beautiful. It’s so much more invigorating for us to have that conversation about product like, because most of the time it’s 90% about the product, which is super, super cool from our standpoint to get feedback about the product.
00;23;06;07 – 00;23;26;28
John Genova
Because while most designers don’t place orders at markets, that’s just they’re usually sourcing, finding sources. Maybe they’re kind of getting some things, maybe there’s a few. But in general, they’re just getting ideas and you know, they’re finding vendors like we’ve talked about so we can engage with them on feedback about our new collections. Are they on the right trend?
00;23;27;01 – 00;23;49;28
John Genova
You’re at the forefront. We follow a lot what designers are doing. We follow leading designers, Instagrams. Where are they going design wise to make sure that we’re going in the right direction? We don’t want to be zigging when you’re zagging. That’s not good for my personally. So it’s a tremendous feedback from from designers. That’s the that’s the biggest thing is, you know, we see thousands of designers per market, which is amazing.
00;23;50;01 – 00;23;57;10
Rebecca Hay
Such an interesting business. I it’s so funny when you think about it. So wild. Is your showroom open throughout the year?
00;23;57;12 – 00;24;19;20
John Genova
Yeah. Our showroom, we have three showrooms across the country, but our High Point showroom is open Monday through Friday all year long. We have a showroom manager there. He’s been with us for years. He mans it every day. Our Las Vegas showroom is not. It’s only open to markets. And then we have, a really beautiful showroom at our corporate offices in Los Angeles, where you can come Monday through Friday and see us.
00;24;19;22 – 00;24;29;18
John Genova
All three of them are fully done, exactly like our our showrooms across each one is a very similar presentation and fully venue, edited, fully set up.
00;24;29;24 – 00;24;50;05
Rebecca Hay
That’s cool because, you know, for those who’ve never been to a trade show, there are some showrooms that are not open between trade shows like you just mentioned, the Vegas one, there’s not a foot traffic. So for anyone listening, you don’t necessarily have to go during the the market days. I recommend because there’s so much energy and there’s that’s when all the events are, and that’s when the new collections are released and all of that.
00;24;50;07 – 00;24;56;04
Rebecca Hay
But that is good to know that you could go and schedule. You’d want to get pre-book, right? You want to schedule if you’re going in.
00;24;56;04 – 00;25;11;11
John Genova
Yeah. You can go on our website. There’s a place to make an appointment with the showroom manager, or you can just call us or email us and we would help connect you with that person. The same in LA, you know, I mean, if somebody wanted to make a trip to LA and join us, we’d certainly welcome that and see us there.
00;25;11;18 – 00;25;14;09
John Genova
Same process. You can make an appointment or you can just come in.
00;25;14;09 – 00;25;32;00
Rebecca Hay
Cool. So let’s talk about the product itself. What are like for those who don’t know dovetail? Because there’s designers here who have never been to a trade show. They don’t even know any of the the company names of what they’re supplying to their clients because they just go to the local, you know, retailer. What type of product does dovetail have?
00;25;32;00 – 00;25;45;05
Rebecca Hay
And then I’m curious about well, I’ll let you finish that question because I’ve got a second question about pricing that’s more about the designer and their client. And transparency. But first, I kind of want you just to share with everyone what type of products do you sell?
00;25;45;07 – 00;26;10;24
John Genova
We call ourselves, like I mentioned before, whole home we do when someone comes into our showroom and High Point, my joke, if they want to call it a joke, is we can sell you everything in that showroom except for the plants, the books in the bedding. We do rugs, we do lighting, accessories, bedroom, dining, living room, upholstery, all furniture categories pretty much can be bought from us, which is pretty cool.
00;26;10;24 – 00;26;34;20
John Genova
And then we cross multi styles. We we have certain style houses, we have California casual, we have classic heritage. We have different classifications that we internally design into. But we would call ourselves and on trend brand meaning we’re not super traditional and we’re not super modern. We’re kind of just on trend. What’s going on today?
00;26;34;26 – 00;26;41;12
Rebecca Hay
And as far as price point, where would you say you fall between, you know, low ticket and luxury high end?
00;26;41;14 – 00;26;56;24
John Genova
I would say we’re mid to mid upper depending on the products. We have products that fall into a good, better, best category with most of ours in the better category. Not the best and not the good. But we have both of those. So yeah, we’re medium to medium upper.
00;26;56;26 – 00;27;16;22
Rebecca Hay
That follows my next question, which is, you know, how should designers think about pricing their services or even their products? You know, in this world, in this day and age where anybody can Google a picture and find out where it’s from, or maybe not find out where it’s from, but find it at another source at a certain price.
00;27;16;24 – 00;27;32;03
Rebecca Hay
Like, how do you mitigate that with designers? Like, how do you support designers when it comes to pricing? Because I think client expectations are shifting, though I would also argue that those designers aren’t finding the right clients. The right clients don’t care where it’s from and don’t care what it costs. They’re just to make it beautiful.
00;27;32;06 – 00;27;34;22
John Genova
But you will get one every once in a while that will.
00;27;34;24 – 00;27;42;19
Rebecca Hay
Yeah. And there’s, you know, especially when you’re starting out as some designers listening today are like, how does that work with pricing transparency and all of that?
00;27;42;19 – 00;28;06;24
John Genova
Well, this is the challenge across all channels, not with designers, with retailers, with everybody pricing the internet and has changed the way pricing is done. We have a map price policy, which is minimum advertised price that anybody that puts our products anywhere printed, whether it’s digitally or in print, has to hold to a certain price. And we set that price.
00;28;06;26 – 00;28;29;16
John Genova
It’s two and a half times wholesale. So when someone goes online, in theory. Now, don’t get me wrong, people break map all the time and they have to tell us and we have to go slap them on the wrist and hopefully get them to fix it. But for the most part, most people honor the map because the ones that are selling want to make margin, and they don’t want to keep racing to the bottom with a lower price.
00;28;29;16 – 00;28;51;02
John Genova
So map sort of hopefully mitigates that. So when your customer goes online and sees it, they’re going to see hopefully the same price everywhere. Now how each one of your designers wants to price, that is a very personal decision. I know that there are. I do have a lot of designer friends that say they’ve moved away from a product pricing, revenue model.
00;28;51;02 – 00;29;10;19
John Genova
While there’s a markup on the furniture, that isn’t where they’re deriving most of their revenue. They’re trying to get that from a a fee basis or an hourly basis, because that protects you, because that you can just say, yeah, if in theory, the perfect world for you is here’s what it cost me, here’s what you’re going to pay, here’s the invoice from dovetail.
00;29;10;21 – 00;29;38;24
John Genova
You know, there’s that’s the ultimate in transparency if you’re not relying on that because then they go online. It doesn’t matter what that or wherever they see the product the price doesn’t matter. The value now becomes in you and your services not in the product. And so that’s one way that people are mitigating that. But there are all kinds of different ways to skin that cat, which is a challenge, I think, because of the transparency of products, pricing across so easy, accessible these days.
00;29;38;28 – 00;29;55;05
Rebecca Hay
Yeah, I love I love two things. And there’s one thing I’m going to push back on, but I love two things that you said, which was, well, first of all, the minimum advertised price map. That’s so interesting. I’ve not heard that before. So that’s really cool. I think designers listening are going to love that. And also, for those listening two and a half times wholesale.
00;29;55;05 – 00;30;04;24
Rebecca Hay
So they’re, you know, minimum advertised price, I would imagine some designers are still just selling to their clients privately at below that. Yeah. Could they sell above that.
00;30;04;26 – 00;30;13;28
John Genova
They can sell for whatever they would like. Anybody can sell it for whatever they want, but you cannot put it out there to the world as your price for less than that price.
00;30;13;28 – 00;30;20;25
Rebecca Hay
Got it. So that’s one way that if you wanted to sell it for a little bit less. So it’s not suggested retail, it’s not mSRP.
00;30;20;27 – 00;30;21;12
John Genova
It is not.
00;30;21;14 – 00;30;24;17
Rebecca Hay
I like that. So interesting. It is like the minimum.
00;30;24;20 – 00;30;28;09
John Genova
Are we do have an mSRP two. That’s three times.
00;30;28;11 – 00;31;04;29
Rebecca Hay
Okay. So for designers listening there you go. Anywhere between two and a half times what you pay and you know up to three times yep is really standard. Yeah. So I think that’s really neat. I think that’s really cool. You call that minimum advertised price? I love that smart business practice actually. But then the other thing I was going to push back on a little bit is I believe that unless you are at a level that is so high that you can charge a ton for your fees, I don’t think you should give products to clients that cost, especially products that are wholesale at cost, because in my opinion, you’re leaving money on the table.
00;31;04;29 – 00;31;28;04
Rebecca Hay
And this message is for the designers who are like 2 to 5 years in, you’re getting traction, you’re getting good projects, but you’re not seeing the profitability you need, but you’re not confident enough yet, or you don’t have the experience yet to charge the hundreds of thousands of dollars in design fees. I do believe that there’s power in finding these wholesalers and reselling these products and keeping some of the profit.
00;31;28;07 – 00;31;41;10
John Genova
You just answered the question you asked at the very beginning of this. Why buy wholesale? Because it allows you to get that margin you need, rather than buying it through an additional source that has markup on it.
00;31;41;12 – 00;31;59;17
Rebecca Hay
Yeah, yeah. Because unless you’re charging so as you mentioned, Jon, so much for your fees that you can cover because there is a lot of time involved in placing orders, right? Even with the right partners, you still got to create the purchase order. You got to go through the website and you need to verify all the details, make sure everything is accurate.
00;31;59;17 – 00;32;19;01
Rebecca Hay
Right. Is it the right finish? Is it the right size is you know, is the delivery. Oh what happens. Oh there’s a delay or the delivery comes and it’s damaged. And like you know, great partners will work with you. But that’s still time. And so if you’re not charging enough on your fees you need to make sure you have that cushion, because otherwise it can be challenging to be profitable for sure.
00;32;19;01 – 00;32;24;29
John Genova
I think that that my my comment was purely against a price protection thing, where you.
00;32;25;00 – 00;32;25;17
Rebecca Hay
Go.
00;32;25;20 – 00;32;43;01
John Genova
From a profitability standpoint, I would charge for I would make up the product if it was me doing my business, if I if I truly wanted to protect myself from not being shopped there it is boiled down, distilled to the lowest common denominator. But I wouldn’t do that either. I would definitely charge for it.
00;32;43;04 – 00;32;51;12
Rebecca Hay
So me, I always think back to, Martin Short and Father of the bride too, and he’s the decorator. He’s like the flamboyant decorator. And if you remember that.
00;32;51;12 – 00;32;52;29
John Genova
Movie, I do remember.
00;32;53;01 – 00;33;02;19
Rebecca Hay
He does the nursery or something, and it’s like the bills are just racking up. That’s like the 1980s designer. And I just feel like, isn’t that what we all aspire to.
00;33;02;21 – 00;33;06;11
John Genova
That what we want in our business.
00;33;06;13 – 00;33;08;24
Rebecca Hay
It doesn’t matter what’s going to be beautiful.
00;33;08;26 – 00;33;10;06
John Genova
Yeah, exactly.
00;33;10;09 – 00;33;21;27
Rebecca Hay
Oh my goodness. This has been such a great conversation. Is there anything we’ve missed that you feel is really important to share? And I will get to the nugget in a second, but I just want to make sure we’ve covered all the areas. What do we miss when it comes to this conversation?
00;33;22;02 – 00;33;46;16
John Genova
One thing I think that that’s important when evaluating, and I think we didn’t talk about it, is the because most of the designers are remote. Right. And you’re dealing with these companies from wherever they’re dealing with. I think the piece that has to be important to you guys is the website. What does the vendor’s website offer you? Can you get tear sheets, do you get accurate dimensions?
00;33;46;16 – 00;34;08;21
John Genova
Do you get pricing lead. You know, inventory? What do you have images. All those things that you need to make decisions. Is their website user friendly and robust enough to get you as much information as you need without having to make a phone call or an email to the vendor. That I think would be for me if I was on your side.
00;34;08;21 – 00;34;25;29
John Genova
Super important. When I go online, is it easy for me to get information? Is it easy for me to place the order? Like with our website, you can do everything. We have tear sheets available that you can switch it to this view, and you can put your logo in it and print out tear sheets directly from our warehouse.
00;34;25;29 – 00;34;49;15
John Genova
Wow. Or pricing and all this stuff. So there are tools that you should look for in a website that make your life easier. Like everything I said, how is it made? Description of the materials, the dimensions, the how many photos, different angles you know in lifestyle settings so you can get scale, all those different things that I know that when you’re sitting in front of you, you can help make your decision a lot quicker.
00;34;49;15 – 00;35;02;11
John Genova
I’m not going to like this, but how long is it? And you got an email the customer service team and they got an email you back. I think the website should be a performance should be a big component of of your evaluation of a vendor.
00;35;02;13 – 00;35;23;16
Rebecca Hay
That’s a fantastic point. I hadn’t even thought of that. Especially in today’s world where we’re doing everything online. Everything is digital. You know, all of our presentations are digital, and so we need great photos, especially if it’s not something that the client is going to go and sit in and touch and feel. You want to make sure you’ve got the close up shot, you’ve got the pictures.
00;35;23;18 – 00;35;27;14
Rebecca Hay
I love that that you can see like the delivery in the lead times on your site. That’s great.
00;35;27;19 – 00;35;47;28
John Genova
Yeah, our inventory shows there. It shows what’s coming if it’s out of stock, if it says, you know, zero available, we’ll show you what’s coming in. And it’s a static and it’s a, a rolling number where it’s actually the availability, not what’s just coming in on that shipment. It’s actually what’s available from that next shipment with our best estimate of when it should arrive.
00;35;48;05 – 00;35;59;29
John Genova
But it’s really a good tool for planning. And so I think it’s a big, a big component. It was a big initiative for us 3 or 4 years ago to really upgrade ours. And it’s made a big difference.
00;36;00;03 – 00;36;28;23
Rebecca Hay
I would imagine that’s a pretty big undertaking with a company that has many products, as you have, and then keeping it up to date, I can I can’t even tell you how many times I’ve designed for a project. And we get close to the presentation day and we either investigate or we don’t find out till after the presentation, but we we investigate and we was like, let’s just double check stock because, you know, we built a whole presentation around this one item and we call the vendor because it’s not available on a website.
00;36;28;26 – 00;36;52;12
Rebecca Hay
And they’re like, oh no, there’s, you know, it’s a back order issue now or, or there was an issue. It’s like what? And now it’s the 11th hour and we are having to redesign the freaking living room because the carpet, I’m just making this scenario up. But whatever the item is that the whole room was designed around designers, you get it, you pick one thing and you’re like, oh my God, the whole room makes sense now.
00;36;52;14 – 00;37;14;04
Rebecca Hay
Now we have to change it. And because there hasn’t been the transparency of information, I think that’s really so important. In today’s world especially, things are moving so quick. And if you are a studio and if you or someone has an assistant to be able to have a website access where they can just quickly log in and they can find out the information you need.
00;37;14;06 – 00;37;16;11
Rebecca Hay
Oh game changer.
00;37;16;14 – 00;37;25;15
John Genova
Yep, I agree, I think the website for us has been the biggest, improvement in our ability to service the design community effectively.
00;37;25;21 – 00;37;34;17
Rebecca Hay
That’s awesome. All right. It’s that time of day we’re going to do the last nugget of wisdom. So, John, what last nugget of wisdom do you have for our listeners today?
00;37;34;19 – 00;37;58;04
John Genova
Oh, it’s perfect actually, I was thinking about this because you kind of prepped me on this, and I said, what am I, good? What kind of wisdom can I lay? And based on the way this is gone, this is actually perfect. And where I was thinking, I sign every one of my emails to my team with a tagline at the bottom, and it says, good things happen when we work as a team and I believe that not only internally, I mean that all of us.
00;37;58;04 – 00;38;19;09
John Genova
And so with the design community, if we’re all partnering together, working together, then all of us can really be successful in what we do. And so for me, that is a good mantra not only for me with my team, but also with my partners and my partners with me. And so that would be what I would be. Good things happen when we work as a team.
00;38;19;09 – 00;38;24;24
John Genova
If you’re working with people that aren’t working with you, it’s probably not going to be a successful thing for you.
00;38;24;27 – 00;38;32;07
Rebecca Hay
Oh, such a good nugget. I don’t think we had that one on the podcast before. We’re like, oh, 300 plus episodes deep. That’s good.
00;38;32;10 – 00;38;33;15
John Genova
I love it. Thank you.
00;38;33;17 – 00;38;42;11
Rebecca Hay
Well thank you so much for joining me today. Where can everyone find and follow either you or the company to to find out a little bit more information about dovetail?
00;38;42;13 – 00;39;01;05
John Genova
Well, I think the first place to start is what we talked about a few minutes ago. The website, it’s WW dovetail home.com. And you can sign up for our trade program there. You can instantly have an account set up with us without an order. So you ready to go? You just submit your information and we’ll approve you and you’ll be off and run.
00;39;01;05 – 00;39;26;11
John Genova
And you can learn about our trading design program there, which offers pricing incentives, freight incentives, and then have full access to everything. We talked about the tier sheets, the products, the lead times, all the stuff to make you successful and then see all 2000 plus products that we offer, and really get a feel for that. And, once you do that, you’ll get in contact with your local sales reps and our local sales reps are very supportive of the community.
00;39;26;11 – 00;39;32;19
John Genova
They’ll introduce themselves, and then you should absolutely lean on them for, for additional support as well.
00;39;32;21 – 00;39;38;26
Rebecca Hay
Awesome. And that website is WW dovetail home.com. Correct.
00;39;38;29 – 00;39;39;29
John Genova
That is correct.
00;39;40;02 – 00;39;41;29
Rebecca Hay
Okay. And we will also link it in the show notes.
00;39;41;29 – 00;39;42;21
John Genova
Fantastic.
00;39;42;21 – 00;39;46;19
Rebecca Hay
Thank you so much for being my guest today John. It’s been such a pleasure Rebecca.
00;39;46;19 – 00;39;51;25
John Genova
It was great. I really enjoyed the conversation. Thank you so much.
00;39;51;28 – 00;40;16;04
Rebecca Hay
That was really great. I love when I can have a conversation with someone who’s been in the industry for a really long time and has seen the evolution especially. I think it’s so fascinating. When you go to these furniture markets like High Point Market, there will be signs on the door saying designers aren’t allowed. And it’s funny because I remember when I went the first time before the pandemic, there was a little bit of exclusivity with some of the vendors, not dovetail, but other vendors were.
00;40;16;04 – 00;40;36;27
Rebecca Hay
It was like, oh no, if you need an appointment and there were a couple ones that they said, oh no, if you’re a designer, you can’t go there. And I remember thinking, oh, that’s weird. I didn’t think much of it. But now hearing how he’s described the industry back in the day, if you will. So interesting. Dovetail sounds like an incredible company to partner with.
00;40;36;29 – 00;40;59;27
Rebecca Hay
They are a company that is clearly trying to keep up with the times their website, Dovetail Homecare, sounds like a designer’s dream when you’re sourcing and a great opportunity for you to make money. Because let’s face it, we are listening to this podcast today because we want to get better. We want to have better clients. We want to make more money because we want to have a business that feels as good as it looks.
00;40;59;27 – 00;41;14;25
Rebecca Hay
And so finding the right partners who are on the same path as you is going to be instrumental. If you enjoy this episode, when you just give us a little DM on Instagram, I’d love to know. And if you’ve worked with dovetail, let me know. I’d love to hear your stories and I would love to see pictures of your projects.
00;41;15;01 – 00;41;32;04
Rebecca Hay
Then please share them my way and share some love with dovetail. Go on over to their website, check them out on Instagram and I’ll see you soon.
