If you’ve ever felt overwhelmed trying to grow your interior design business, this episode is a must-listen. I’m joined by Renee Bush, a brand strategist and former Director of Operations at Studio McGee, who now works with 7-figure entrepreneurs to scale with clarity and confidence.

In our conversation, Renee shares the lessons she learned from burnout, how to spot the signs before it’s too late, and what it really means to work smarter in your interior design business. Spoiler alert: it’s not about doing more—it’s about doing the right things.

We also dig into the branding mistakes that are holding designers back, why your portfolio isn’t the problem, and how to align your business so it attracts the clients you actually want to work with.

 

episode highlights

  1. How Renee transitioned from teaching to operations at Studio McGee—and what she learned about running a high-functioning design business

  2. The early warning signs of burnout and how to build a more sustainable rhythm

  3. Why brand strategy and brand visuals are not the same thing

  4. How to shift from working with whoever comes your way to working with clients who truly align

  5. The most overlooked reason your marketing might not be working

  6. How to clarify your message so your ideal clients know you’re the right designer for them

Episode Resources

Read the Full Transcript ⬇️

00;00;00;03 – 00;00;20;23
Renee Bush
The best way to run your business is to really look at what’s going to be fulfilling to you. Would you rather be doing more creatively inspiring designs, but making slightly less money? Or would you rather be making way more money and kind of like churning out designs that your clients are super happy with, but might be, you know, a little repetitive for you or maybe a little easy for you?

00;00;20;23 – 00;00;32;12
Renee Bush
Like, that’s a super successful business, and so is one where you’re constantly creatively inspired and you’re always experimenting and trying new things. And those are just two completely different businesses. And neither one is wrong.

00;00;32;14 – 00;01;04;16
Rebecca Hay
All right. I’m Rebecca Haigh, and I’ve built a successful interior design business by trial and error, podcasts, online courses, and so many freaking books. Over the last decade, I’ve grown from an insecure student to having false starts to careers. And now I’m finally in the place where I want to be. Throughout my journey, it’s been pretty obvious that I’m passionate about business and helping other entrepreneurs do the same.

00;01;04;18 – 00;01;36;19
Rebecca Hay
Each week, I’ll share tangible takeaways from my own experience and the experiences of other badass women to help you build your confidence and change your business. Hey hey hey, it’s Rebecca, and you’re listening to Resilient by Design. Today’s guest is an incredible resource for business strategy by Rene Bush. She’s a seasoned business and brand strategist specializing in helping interior designers take their business to the next level.

00;01;36;21 – 00;02;05;01
Rebecca Hay
She has over a decade of experience in the design industry. She has an MBA. She brings a unique blend of experience. She helps her clients grow to multiple seven figures. And she was get this, the former director of design operations at studio McGee. We all know who studio McGee is. She honed her skills and refining design process operations, and that experience, combined with her background in branding and brand strategy, really fuels her passion.

00;02;05;01 – 00;02;37;19
Rebecca Hay
You hear it today in our call. There’s a lot of great nuggets. You are absolute going to love. She’s collaborated with lots of interior design firms across the US. Her approach is really about being strategic and providing those custom business solutions. You’re going to hear some of those ideas in this episode, and I’m excited for you to listen to this conversation, because Renee has a way of framing things in a little bit of a different light that I think will make you excited again about the changes that you can make inside your own interior design business.

00;02;37;25 – 00;02;47;13
Rebecca Hay
So join me in welcoming Renee to the podcast. You’re going to love it. Hello, Renee. Welcome to the podcast.

00;02;47;15 – 00;02;49;12
Renee Bush
Hi, Rebecca, I’m so excited to be here.

00;02;49;16 – 00;03;11;20
Rebecca Hay
I’m so excited to have you because, you know, I love a good business conversation, and your experience and expertise are in the perfect alignment for this podcast. I know designers are going to love this episode. Before we dive into all the nitty gritty and the juicy conversation. Maybe just give us a little bit of a background because you worked at studio McGee, correct?

00;03;11;21 – 00;03;32;08
Renee Bush
I did, yes, that was actually one of my first jobs in the specifically the interior design industry. So I’ve worked in the design industry as a whole for, you know, well over a decade. But I started off working in kind of like multidisciplinary design studios, graphic design studio. We were doing a lot of brand strategy, things like that.

00;03;32;08 – 00;03;56;09
Renee Bush
So I started off in that world. The studio I worked with did a lot of environmental design and also what they call like activations, where, you know, we’re doing like a thing at Adweek. But, you know, we oftentimes we work with interior designers on some of those projects. So that was like my first introduction to interior design. And then when I left the company, I was working for the the design studio, I got a job at studio McGee.

00;03;56;11 – 00;04;10;27
Renee Bush
You know, that was really where I learned so much about the internal workings of the interior design industry. And not just like, you know, from more of the client perspective of collaborating with them. So, yeah, I worked there for about two years as the director of Design operations.

00;04;11;01 – 00;04;20;07
Rebecca Hay
Amazing. I think it’s so interesting because, I mean, everybody knows studio McGee, like she’s become a household name, but I remember following her when she had less than 5000 followers.

00;04;20;14 – 00;04;21;10
Renee Bush
Amazing. Yeah.

00;04;21;15 – 00;04;44;22
Rebecca Hay
You know, that was in my early years, too, of writing when I just started my design firm. And she was selling pillows. Yeah, right. And I was like, oh, look at this girl in the US selling pillows. She was in California. I’m like, there’s this California designer. I’m like, maybe I should sell pillows. And then it shifted. And I remember watching her go from, I think it was Shay McGee designs initially that I followed, and then she rebranded to studio McGee when I guess her husband joined.

00;04;44;22 – 00;05;03;00
Rebecca Hay
I think they were in and around 10,000 followers on Instagram, and at that time I remember thinking, this is a big mistake. What is she doing? I because 10,000 was back then 10,000 followers was a lot of yes. It was very hard to get there. It meant you could have a link in your stories if anybody’s listening remembers that.

00;05;03;00 – 00;05;04;06
Rebecca Hay
Right to buy things.

00;05;04;10 – 00;05;05;11
Renee Bush
I remember that, yeah.

00;05;05;11 – 00;05;24;20
Rebecca Hay
And I remember thinking like, what is going on? Like, this is such a ballsy move. I can’t wait to see what happens. And obviously now she’s exploded in the businesses, has thrived. But it’s such a great example of branding. Yeah, obviously it’s so much more than just the pretty. And that’s what I want us to talk about today, is that we’re not here to talk about studio McGee.

00;05;24;20 – 00;05;32;27
Rebecca Hay
I think that’s just a great example. I know you have those. Inside are the behind the scenes look at how things were run. But it’s so much more than the beautiful Instagram feed.

00;05;33;00 – 00;06;00;06
Renee Bush
I mean, absolutely, I think that one of the things about that brand specifically that makes it so successful even now, is that it’s just extremely aligned. You know, they had the tagline of make Life Beautiful, the way that who she is as a person, I think she represents that as authentically as she can. And all the way through the business, the esthetic matches, the tagline, matches the way she lives her life matches the way they represent themselves.

00;06;00;06 – 00;06;21;03
Renee Bush
Like all the way through. It’s just really sharp but clear and concise. And so like, I think that’s what attracts people and makes them stay right. It builds that trust. And so yeah, when you’re thinking about like brand strategy, I’m always telling people like, you want to get down to like the lowest common denominator, like you want to get down to like what is the sharpest, cleanest, but simplest thing.

00;06;21;04 – 00;06;38;09
Renee Bush
It’s not overcomplicating it. And I think so often designers don’t even realize what it is about them that like, makes them unique or they think it’s not unique enough. And I’m kind of like, it doesn’t need to be the most earth shattering thing on the planet. And frankly, you don’t need to be the only designer on the planet doing this thing.

00;06;38;12 – 00;07;03;24
Renee Bush
Everyone is going to do things differently. You know, think about, you know, different singers can sing the same song and it sounds so different. You know, if you’re a designer who what makes you unique or something that you’re really good at is a process. Your process is still going to be different than somebody else’s. But like drill down to that simplest thing and say, this is what I’m really good at, and then make sure everything in your business is aligned to that in a way that’s going to attract the people that love that.

00;07;03;24 – 00;07;12;06
Renee Bush
And it’s like I’m all about, how do we get to that alignment? It should feel easy. Let’s make it simple. It doesn’t need to be over complicated.

00;07;12;09 – 00;07;21;29
Rebecca Hay
I love that you’re saying this. You know, every year, not every year, but almost every year. I pick a word of the year. You know, people do that. They pick a word of the year. Yeah. And the word that I picked in January was simplify.

00;07;22;00 – 00;07;22;23
Renee Bush
Interesting.

00;07;22;23 – 00;07;40;29
Rebecca Hay
And it’s funny because we’re now recording it’s the middle of summer. So we’re more than halfway through the year. And about a month ago, I was talking with my business coach, and I had all these ideas and I’m like, I can do this, I can do that. And then I was like, whoa, hold up, Rebecca, your word this year was simplify.

00;07;41;00 – 00;08;06;01
Rebecca Hay
How are all of these new ideas? They’re great ideas, but they’re not simplifying my business, my life. And so I love that you said that because we do tend to overcomplicate things. And do you see, designers, I’m curious from your perspective because we’re talking about this idea of like it being in alignment and simplifying and, and recognizing what you’re known for, even if you feel like other people have this too, it’s not a unique enough.

00;08;06;04 – 00;08;08;06
Rebecca Hay
Do you think designers are trying to do too much?

00;08;08;07 – 00;08;23;13
Renee Bush
Yes, I absolutely think designers are trying to do too much. I think some designers are built to do too much and like power to them. I think some people are just truly like that. What I notice in the industry a lot, and I think, you know, you’ll probably see it and I think a lot of designers will be like, yep, I do.

00;08;23;13 – 00;08;41;28
Renee Bush
That is like that shiny object syndrome. And also just kind of looking around at everybody else, like kind of being like, oh, they’re doing that. I need to do that. They’re doing that. I need to do that, that work for this person. So I’m going to try that. And I think that that’s where people get into trouble. I was talking to someone the other day and you know, they’re explaining like all the things they’re doing in their business.

00;08;41;28 – 00;08;49;00
Renee Bush
And then somewhere in the conversation, it comes up the like they go to bed at midnight and wake up at four. That is just never going to be me.

00;08;49;01 – 00;08;49;24
Rebecca Hay
Hard. No.

00;08;49;25 – 00;09;15;28
Renee Bush
Hard. No. There are some people that are just wired a little differently, and that doesn’t mean it’s better. It’s not that that person has more potential to be successful, it’s just that they’re going to do it in their own way. And so I think like making sure that you’re not looking at other people who either are doing too much and are super overwhelmed and you just don’t realize it or look like they’re doing too much, when in reality you never know what someone else’s business looks like.

00;09;16;01 – 00;09;27;04
Renee Bush
I’ve met and talked to some of the most well known popular designers, some of the most successful, and the outside almost never exactly matches that. Inside. You never.

00;09;27;04 – 00;09;42;02
Rebecca Hay
Know. I love this, this is funny. I recorded an episode with Lou at Niagara. I love her last year or the year before, and she just re-aired it. And so I listened to it. She re-aired it on her podcast, actually, and there’s a little snippet that we pulled from it that we’re going to share on social. That was such a great reminder.

00;09;42;02 – 00;10;09;23
Rebecca Hay
It was like in the 90s, like we’re talking 1990s, like I was a kid, like I wasn’t even running a design firm. Yeah, yeah, she has so much experience. But she was sharing how, you know, she’d be in the elevator with these Architectural Digest feature designers doing celebrity homes. And they were worried, can they even make payroll? Whereas she would see other designers that were thriving financially and their designs were like, maybe just okay, like they were like this Uber talented all in flashy magazines.

00;10;09;23 – 00;10;24;10
Rebecca Hay
And so it’s a great reminder that even back then, it’s how does it change what we see on the outside? Just because you see someone on Instagram doing a million things doesn’t mean that they’re happy, they’re successful, they’re making money, and it doesn’t mean that’s what you should do.

00;10;24;18 – 00;10;47;23
Renee Bush
Absolutely. And I think that the best way to run your business is to really look at what’s going to be fulfilling to you. Would you rather be doing more creatively inspiring designs but making slightly less money, or would you rather be making way more money and kind of like churning out designs that your clients are super happy with, but might be like, you know, a little repetitive for you or maybe a little easy for you.

00;10;47;23 – 00;11;06;06
Renee Bush
Like, sometimes that doesn’t mean they’re bad. It just means that, like, I can design a white kitchen that’s going to look great in 20 years, and I can do that over and over and over again, and I can go to work. My clients are happy. My team is happy. I’m doing a great job. I’m making great money. Like, that’s a super successful business.

00;11;06;09 – 00;11;20;28
Renee Bush
And so is one where you’re constantly creatively inspired and you’re always experimenting and trying new things. And, you know, you might be creating a product and that fails, and then you’re doing something else that hits really well. Those are just two completely different businesses, and neither one is wrong.

00;11;21;00 – 00;11;35;23
Rebecca Hay
So what role would you say, especially in your experience working for, you know, a company that had a very recognizable brand, like very solid. What role does the outside picture, that brand? What role does that play in the success of a business?

00;11;35;29 – 00;11;54;04
Renee Bush
Everything about branding is around trust, right? And I have interviewed I’m sure, just like you, like hundreds of designers and talked about your ideal client. Right. Like that’s such an important part of a business is like, well, who do you want to be working with? Who do you like working with? Who do you want to attract? And almost every designer, without fail.

00;11;54;04 – 00;12;12;07
Renee Bush
And I think I can say it’s 100%, but let’s pretend there’s one person out there that didn’t say this, but like 100% of the time, the first thing they’ll say is, I just want an ideal client who, trust me, the way we get that is through your brand. So the biggest thing I think you’ll see is that brand builds trust.

00;12;12;07 – 00;12;31;08
Renee Bush
That’s why brands were invented. When you have branding came around, you know, over the decades and hundreds of centuries because people started to be like, hey, I’ve created this product. It is what I say. It is. I’m putting a label on it and my personal stamp so that, you know, you’re getting what I’m saying you’re getting. That’s how it developed.

00;12;31;08 – 00;13;01;12
Renee Bush
That’s what it means. That’s why people buy more expensive things from this brand than you would like a random off the street. The quality could be exactly the same. But you trust one more because it’s branded and it’s got all of the like, clout and legacy and everything behind it. So when you’ve got a business that has a trusted brand to it and it’s very sharp and aligned, meaning everything through that business makes sense, I’ll just say in the simplest terms, it makes sense.

00;13;01;12 – 00;13;22;00
Renee Bush
It goes together. You’re attracting people who love that thing. They’re already looking for what you have, and they already trust it. That whole business is going to run smoother and more seamlessly. Not to say perfect because no business fits perfectly, but that is going to run more smoothly and more seamlessly than a business where they’ve never heard about you.

00;13;22;07 – 00;13;43;14
Renee Bush
You don’t have any type of presence. They can’t go and find like proof that you can do what you say you can do. That’s typical where we get stuck in, even if you’re amazing and you’ve been doing this for 15 years, if there’s no testimonials, you don’t have a logo, there’s no website. Your Instagram looks like you’re a mom who designs as a hobby on the weekends.

00;13;43;17 – 00;13;50;15
Renee Bush
You can only charge what that is worth, even if your work is technically much, much, much more valuable than that.

00;13;50;18 – 00;14;03;21
Rebecca Hay
Okay. Full stop. I love what you just said there. So what you’re saying is there are designers out there who are trying to run a professional design business, but when someone goes to their Instagram, I’m just pulling this out because I see this a lot.

00;14;03;25 – 00;14;04;12
Renee Bush
All the time.

00;14;04;19 – 00;14;17;06
Rebecca Hay
Because everyone’s like, oh, I need to show who I am, which I agree, and we can talk about that. But there is something about the Instagram that is more heavily lifestyle and person than it is the designs. It looks like it’s a hobby.

00;14;17;06 – 00;14;20;09
Renee Bush
Exactly. It shouldn’t be the side note unless.

00;14;20;15 – 00;14;40;27
Rebecca Hay
Your goal is to be an influencer and it’s like you need to understand. And this is something that I recognize is do you want to be an influencer or do you want to run a business in a BCD category. And it’s something that I think I experienced early on where I was doing my Instagram. This is, you know, before the pandemic, it was growing as I was becoming an influencer.

00;14;41;02 – 00;15;02;24
Rebecca Hay
And I realized, actually, that’s not what I want. I want to build a thriving business that I can step away from and go on vacation. And so I had to make a shift in my Instagram. It’s shifted since now I’m doing something completely different, right? I’m not attracting design clients anymore, but I really had to shift my messaging what I showed up as, because that is the brand.

00;15;02;26 – 00;15;34;05
Renee Bush
Yes. You know, people laugh because I’m from the South and I always throw all these random anecdotes, but I think that a lot of times, as my clients struggle to really put themselves in the shoes of their clients, and I think, you know, if you’re a designer out there and you hire a service industry person for any reason, a wedding planner and, you know, a contract or whatever, use that as an opportunity to put yourself in the client’s shoes and think about what really sells you, why you chose that person, what you wish you would have known when you went through the process such gold.

00;15;34;06 – 00;15;41;17
Rebecca Hay
Yeah. What I’m hearing from you is the brand is what is going to attract the trusting clients.

00;15;41;17 – 00;15;42;12
Renee Bush
Absolutely.

00;15;42;12 – 00;16;06;01
Rebecca Hay
It’s going to be challenging for a designer or to have successful projects that light them up where they feel like the clients trust them, where they get to be creative, where they get to make the money, where they don’t have to share their discounts. All of that is a lot harder to do if you’re not attracting the right clients, and attracting the right clients comes through having a more cohesive, strong brand.

00;16;06;02 – 00;16;06;19
Rebecca Hay
Is that right?

00;16;06;24 – 00;16;26;07
Renee Bush
Yep, absolutely. I mean, I think that that is one of them. One of the most powerful things that you can do to make your business run easier. And I think your business is supposed to feel easy. It’s not supposed to feel really hard. And so if it’s feeling really hard, it typically means something’s misaligned. And so where can you look at like how to make it feel easier.

00;16;26;13 – 00;16;51;28
Rebecca Hay
So let’s talk about that because I think that what happens, at least it happened to me. And I see it in my community, is when it feels hard. Like you’re saying, that’s when burnout starts to happen. Yes. Talk to me about the burnout loop. What are some strategic shifts and changes we can make apart from cohesive brand, which I realize is a really big thing, but there’s so much more when it comes to strategy.

00;16;52;01 – 00;17;00;24
Rebecca Hay
Yeah, hearing you say that can help you so that you don’t burnout. Like what’s causing us as service providers to burn out all the time.

00;17;01;00 – 00;17;21;02
Renee Bush
I think that people try like you were saying before, it’s like I think you’re seeing it, that trying to do too much. And I think that I see when people are feeling burnt out, they feel a pressure to do more. So they can do less. And I think oftentimes we have to do the counterintuitive thing. We have to do less so that we can do more.

00;17;21;04 – 00;17;37;21
Renee Bush
I mean, I see a lot of people attracted to this industry because they’re highly creative, but they’re also very smart. You have to be good at details. You have to be good at math, for heaven’s sakes. You have to be good at seeing the big picture, but also the tiniest details. You have to be great with variety. You have to be great with people.

00;17;37;25 – 00;17;55;08
Renee Bush
You have to be great with objects. You have to be tactile but also emotional. You have to be a couples therapist. You have you have to do so many things. It honestly attracts people who are, you know, have a tendency to be a bit of a people pleaser. They love making people happy. There are service industry people, you know.

00;17;55;08 – 00;18;12;04
Renee Bush
They also are people who are highly creative, a little bit all over the place. They’re dreamers. They see how the world can be better. They’re always looking for ways to improve a little bit. Perfectionistic. They want a beautiful world. They want to, like I said, every space they go in, they’re constantly thinking, oh, how could this flow better?

00;18;12;04 – 00;18;30;02
Renee Bush
How could this be better? Oh, I wish there was more light in here. Oh, it would be so nice if always thinking and maybe a little bit ADHD. Like juggling a million things. You know, a lot of us are moms, a lot of us have like busy personal lives as well as busy business lives. You’re juggling multiple projects, multiple clients, multiple kids.

00;18;30;02 – 00;18;32;07
Renee Bush
Like it’s a lot.

00;18;32;08 – 00;18;37;22
Rebecca Hay
Yes. Amen. Amen. I like hearing you say that. I’m, like, tired just hearing you talk.

00;18;37;22 – 00;18;57;14
Renee Bush
Now, but it’s like it’s. I see it over and over and over, and then they come and they’re like, how can I do more? And I’m like, or how can we do a little bit less? How can we? How can we be a little bit sharper? How can we be a little bit more aligned? And I think that a lot of the designers I work with, when things are hard, they see it as their own fault.

00;18;57;17 – 00;19;30;27
Renee Bush
Instead of recognizing that there’s something else that like, we could just change to fix it. It’s not always I just need to work harder. I just need to buckle down. I just need to be better, right? Sometimes it’s like, okay, let’s just slow down for a minute. For example, if in your process, let’s say you’ve got a lot of clients that need a lot of things, I would say a lot of times my designers kind of kick it up a notch, and they try to get all that stuff done in a day and I’m like, instead shoot off a note to all those clients and say, awesome, I can take care of that.

00;19;30;27 – 00;19;48;00
Renee Bush
I’ll get it to you by end of day tomorrow. Every single person has an expectation. And now sit down and instead of trying to get all that done in a day, get it done in two days, or say, I’ll get it to you by the end of the week. Set a realistic expectation. Communicate, but then take the time you need to do it thoughtfully.

00;19;48;03 – 00;20;09;07
Renee Bush
Then you won’t make as many mistakes. You will feel comfortable delegating because you’ll have time to explain it. You’ll be able to let it simmer in your mind and maybe come up with a better idea. I think that more designers would be happier in their business if every time they feel the feeling, well, I need to do it faster or I need I need to speed up or I need to work more, or I need to just work harder.

00;20;09;09 – 00;20;19;00
Renee Bush
If every time they did that instead, they took a pause and said, how can I create more space for myself to make sure that I’m doing this intentionally, thoughtfully, and like taking the time that I need to do it right?

00;20;19;06 – 00;20;40;13
Rebecca Hay
I love this, you know, it’s just interesting you’re talking about this. I feel as though this is not something I’ve spoken about a lot on the podcast, this idea of speed. And as you’re talking, it’s bringing up all these emotions for me of the early years of running my design firm, where I felt the people pleasing tendency in me was everyone’s waiting on me.

00;20;40;13 – 00;21;04;04
Rebecca Hay
I need to deliver faster. I need to deliver faster. And so what I’m hearing, and I am really in alignment with you in this, is that designers need to take back a bit more control and recognize that they can control the parameter. And it’s a bit about boundaries, but it’s more about recognizing your clients will wait. Yes. If you tell them, here’s when you are not.

00;21;04;04 – 00;21;24;28
Rebecca Hay
Everything is urgent. And another thing is giving yourself as the designer the time to do great work. I used to speed through and try to like. I was like, okay, can you have that too by next week? And then I was like, I can design your whole house in four weeks. And then I realized, that’s craziness. And I pushed it and I pushed it.

00;21;25;00 – 00;21;42;16
Rebecca Hay
So to the point where when somebody would come to me, I’d say, okay, it takes us a minimum of three months. I mean, obviously it’s project size dependent, right? But it’s a minimum of three months for us to pull the entire in complete design together because it’s a back and forth. There’s holidays, people go on vacation like we have such it’s.

00;21;42;16 – 00;22;03;21
Rebecca Hay
And yesterday I had a conversation with another business founder who’s not in the design industry, and we were chatting about this idea that a lot of us as business owners and entrepreneurs, I’m curious if you see this, to have what we coined time blindness. Oh, we think we could do so much more in the time that we have.

00;22;03;21 – 00;22;17;18
Rebecca Hay
And sometimes it takes having someone else in our business to hold up a mirror, like my marketing manager, Sarah, will be like, I’m Rebecca. I don’t think we should also do that because here’s why. And I’m like, oh yeah, we really don’t have any time in October. I really yeah. Thank you. Right.

00;22;17;19 – 00;22;19;00
Renee Bush
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

00;22;19;03 – 00;22;25;20
Rebecca Hay
Let’s talk about this idea of like feeling this urgency to do everything fast. What’s that about? Yes.

00;22;25;20 – 00;22;42;00
Renee Bush
You said that at the beginning. Or, like, you have a word of the year and simplify. And I feel like mine, I don’t I don’t have a word for it, I guess. Slow down. But like mine was, this year’s all around urgency is that I notice in myself. And a lot of times you know, because I meet with so many business owners, I see these patterns.

00;22;42;00 – 00;22;59;01
Renee Bush
And then I’m looking at myself going, I’m doing this exact same thing too, you know? And one of those is like, I started noticing this, like, sense of urgency. And, you know, we’re often kinder to other people. And I’d show up and be like, you’re already doing such a great job. You don’t need to, like, be working every single hour.

00;22;59;01 – 00;23;07;28
Renee Bush
You deserve rest. You deserve to go on vacation. You deserve to slow down. You need to charge more. And then I’d look at myself and be like, okay, you need to like, listen to yourself as well.

00;23;07;28 – 00;23;10;03
Rebecca Hay
Totally practice what you preach, right?

00;23;10;05 – 00;23;30;13
Renee Bush
Exactly. So this year is all around learning how to slow down, and just being more realistic with my time, like you’re saying. And I think, I think a lot of designers, perfectionist tendencies with like a little bit of people pleasing, they look at it as like, best case scenario, I’m not saying be a pessimist and just assume everything’s always going to be terrible or that it’s going to be bad.

00;23;30;15 – 00;23;50;08
Renee Bush
But like, I have two kids, one of them gets sick like every other week. You know, like, if I don’t have a day in the week where there’s no meetings. So like, I typically like to try to do most of my meetings on Tuesdays and Thursdays and leave Monday, Wednesday, Friday relatively flexible. And because of those, I’m able to fit things in.

00;23;50;08 – 00;24;10;02
Renee Bush
Or if I need to cancel a Tuesday, I can push everything to a Wednesday through Friday without it being like next week is going to be absolutely horrendous. So just creating more buffers and more space and and like with your pricing, it shouldn’t be where I make the money I need to make. So long as I’m at max capacity, you should be making what you need to make.

00;24;10;02 – 00;24;33;25
Renee Bush
If you’re at 70% capacity, 60% capacity, because frankly, that’s how much I want to be working. I don’t want to be working max capacity all the time just to make ends meet. How can we create more buffer, create more space, create more time, and just like, not have the expectations on ourselves that yeah, it should be done in the shortest amount of time with absolutely no problems.

00;24;33;27 – 00;24;52;28
Renee Bush
I think that that is what you were saying. Designers need to take back their control rather than like putting the responsibility or the onus or everything on the client and treating the client like your boss. You need to say this is how long it takes me. I often tell little stories to help think through this. I love to to liken it to like a hairdresser.

00;24;53;01 – 00;25;13;09
Renee Bush
The reason is because I think that a lot of us get our hair cut. We’ve you know, even as like regular people we can afford, like a luxury haircut. We’ve had that experience. And it’s like your hair is personal, like there’s something about it where like, you want it to be really good. But if you go to someone and they say, this haircut is going to cost $400, it’s going to take four hours, please make sure that you come 15 minutes early.

00;25;13;16 – 00;25;31;24
Renee Bush
This is how it’s going to go. When you sit down, they explain everything to you. Hey, I’m going to take you over here. We’ll wash your hair, we’ll bring it back. That’s when I’ll do it. Then I’m going to do a base cut, blow drying style, the whole thing, and then I’ll do all the finishing touches. I will make sure to stop regularly and make sure that you’re happy with everything as we go.

00;25;31;26 – 00;25;46;18
Renee Bush
Do you’re going to just sit in that chair and relax and be on your phone, or looking at a magazine and happy as a clam because you know the process. You know what’s going on. That same person could do the exact same haircut, but if they don’t tell you what’s going on, it cost 200 bucks. They told you it was two hours, but it takes four.

00;25;46;20 – 00;25;55;08
Renee Bush
You know, you got the same result, but like, it’s a horrible experience. It’s all about the expectations you set. And it’s not so much about just the end result.

00;25;55;08 – 00;26;15;18
Rebecca Hay
I love this analogy. Like wow, so good right? Those of you listening right now, if you’re multitasking, come back to us because this is a great example. It is not about the end result. There is an assumption, I think, that when you go to a service provider, you’re going to have a great result. That’s why you’re hiring them.

00;26;15;18 – 00;26;16;08
Renee Bush
That’s the hope.

00;26;16;08 – 00;26;32;15
Rebecca Hay
Yeah, that’s the hope. Like we just did the the fence in my backyard. We had to replace the one side of the fence. I assumed I picked them. You know we you know you got people and you’re like, I’m going to have a great fence. I hope the experience is good. I don’t really know. But the experience was amazing.

00;26;32;15 – 00;26;50;00
Rebecca Hay
And so now I can’t wait to tell everyone about Robin Fence in Toronto. Just a little plug. Not sponsored right? Because he was so great, so professional. They told us how long it was going to take. We knew what to expect. There were surprises. There was an issue getting the fence fitted around the tree. It wasn’t what I liked.

00;26;50;00 – 00;27;08;18
Rebecca Hay
I had to come in. The interior designer came in, had some ideas. They were like, whoa, I wouldn’t have thought of that. And he was like, okay, let’s work on it. And so it wasn’t that it was without obstacles. And the result was great, but it was that experience of getting there. And I love the hairdresser analogy because you’re right, all of us can appreciate that.

00;27;08;21 – 00;27;11;06
Rebecca Hay
Yes. We’re no different in our design business.

00;27;11;07 – 00;27;30;25
Renee Bush
Exactly. And I mean, I think also like the people that are spending this money, they have this money. It’s hard for us. I mean, I’m just a regular person. I am not the ideal clientele for most of my clients. Right. The way that I would spend $50,000 is so different than the way that a lot of our clients are going to spend $50,000.

00;27;30;27 – 00;27;48;25
Renee Bush
You know, me, spending $500 might be somewhat similar. And so I think that just making sure that you’re trying to think about how I would react in that situation in a relative way, right. Instead of making yourself the ideal client because you’re probably not, you know, they have $50,000, are happy to spend it. If they don’t spend it with you, they’re going to spend it with someone else.

00;27;48;25 – 00;28;19;27
Renee Bush
It’s not that big of a deal, but the experience of spending it is what really matters to them and what’s lasting and what is going to get them to come back to you, refer you all those kind of things. If they look at your portfolio and they’re like, oh yeah, I like her work great, having the testimonials, having the good branding, making sure that you’re showing up on Instagram as the professional you want to be perceived as, like all of those things come together to ensure the great experience that makes people willing to trust you and makes them willing to say, you know what?

00;28;19;29 – 00;28;36;03
Renee Bush
I’d rather pay this person $75,000 to do the job over this person for $35,000, because I feel more confident that I’m going to get a better experience and a better result. And that’s what ultimately our lives are better when we get more of those clients.

00;28;36;05 – 00;28;50;19
Rebecca Hay
Absolutely. And that is really what it comes down to, is that if you can deliver that service without the overwhelm of being in control, you are going to have the happiest experience. Your clients are going to be happier. You’re going to get more of those.

00;28;50;19 – 00;28;55;13
Renee Bush
Yes. And happy clients are so much easier than difficult. Non trusting clients like we all know that.

00;28;55;19 – 00;29;15;13
Rebecca Hay
Yeah. And in fact in some ways that $50,000 job versus that $75,000 job, it’s the same amount of work. The difference might be that the person who’s paying you 75,000 for that elevated service, it’s actually going to be easier because it’ll be more fun, because you’re going to have more trust in you, because you’re going to be more get to be more creative.

00;29;15;14 – 00;29;21;11
Rebecca Hay
You won’t need to take on as many projects, so you won’t be as full like you were talking about. You won’t be at capacity.

00;29;21;14 – 00;29;39;06
Renee Bush
Which is great. I hear a lot of people, especially if they’re just starting out, or even if you’ve been doing design for a long time, but you’ve maybe been doing it in like a smaller capacity, meaning like you’ve got a few projects or something. You know, I work with a lot of clients like that, and I feel like they want to be able to work with everyone.

00;29;39;06 – 00;29;55;00
Renee Bush
They don’t want to exclude anyone. There’s a lot of fear around like, oh, but if I say I do this kind of job, I might not get that job. And, you know, I want my portfolio to show all the things I can do. And I really want to make sure that people know I can do anything and everything, right?

00;29;55;02 – 00;30;14;29
Renee Bush
When in reality, the sharper you can get, the more you’re going to attract people that are very confident that they want what you have. So like take a look at your portfolio. It’s not about showing the depth and breadth of what you can do. It’s about showing more of what you want. You know, how do I prove to my ideal client I know my ideal client?

00;30;15;01 – 00;30;36;08
Renee Bush
How do I prove through all of my staff that I’m the best fit for them? And that’s not to say that I’m the best designer in the world. Let’s just say I’m the best fit for them. I am down to earth, or I like to do this size of project, or I’m someone who has a really good process, or I’m someone who really looks at details or get testimonials that talk about those things.

00;30;36;10 – 00;30;46;03
Renee Bush
Everything that we can do that we have control over to get sharper is going to kind of create that more aligned business.

00;30;46;05 – 00;31;07;26
Rebecca Hay
What would you say to the designer listening who’s like, yeah, I understand that, Renee. Like, I appreciate where you’re coming from. And I can see how that works for other people, but I need money. And so I have to say yes to the next project because it’s been slow and I’m worried that I can’t pay my mortgage if I don’t take on any job that comes my way.

00;31;07;28 – 00;31;09;05
Rebecca Hay
What would you say to that designer?

00;31;09;08 – 00;31;31;26
Renee Bush
Okay, first off, I’m going to get in and look at all the specifics. Secondly, though, I bet if I started asking that designer, most of those jobs are coming from referrals or coming from past clients or coming from relationships. What that means is that those jobs are probably going to keep coming, even if you update your branding, your website, your portfolio and Instagram.

00;31;31;28 – 00;31;54;14
Renee Bush
But if we can update those things, we can lay the groundwork to start attracting that next level of client. So we want to project out the type of designer we want to be in order to attract that next level of client, while potentially internally we’re still accepting some of those jobs. I love that to pay the bills. So it’s really about like being strategic, thinking forward and laying the groundwork for that.

00;31;54;16 – 00;32;14;12
Renee Bush
And then I would also say, are you taking those jobs? Is it like that grinding? How can we get out of that grinding? If we could just charge a little bit more in a few different areas, could that have us take just a couple jobs less? And then also taking a look at the jobs and saying, is this something that’s creatively inspiring to me?

00;32;14;19 – 00;32;29;10
Renee Bush
Would I do this for free? Like, am I excited about this project? That’s an easy yes. Is this going to help my portfolio? Is the client kind of difficult? The budget’s maybe not perfect, but I do think I’m gonna be able to shoot this and it’s going to be great, and it’s going to help me attract the next level of client or number three.

00;32;29;16 – 00;32;45;10
Renee Bush
You know what? Maybe not great for my portfolio, but the client’s easy. It’s going to make me good money. I’m just going to take it. It should be at least one of those things. And eventually we want to get to a place where it’s all of those things. Every project is going to make me good money, be great for my portfolio, and I’m so excited about it.

00;32;45;10 – 00;33;11;24
Renee Bush
Right. But when you’re just starting, it should be at least one of those things. Or it’s a no. I’m it’s not worth it if it’s not inspiring going to be helping you with marketing or your business or it’s not going to make you good money. So yeah, I would just kind of be like, is it those things? And then the other thing I would say is do not go out of your way to win over horrible jobs if you need it for the money, that’s fine.

00;33;11;26 – 00;33;32;02
Renee Bush
Everyone takes jobs that are less than perfect to pay the bills. That’s normal. Like you talk to any big designer and they’re still doing that. Everybody does that. But at the same time, don’t go to this job. That’s not inspiring that the client seems difficult working with a contractor that you have a difficult relationship with, and then underbid just to win the job.

00;33;32;05 – 00;33;39;23
Renee Bush
Like, don’t go out of your way to win the bad ones. Just go in and say, this is what I charge, and it needs to at least make me money or it’s not worth it.

00;33;39;28 – 00;33;56;22
Rebecca Hay
I love that I love this idea of what you’re what you’re sharing with us right now is like this filter. It’s like, okay, a job comes your way. Let’s put that filter to it. Is it one of these three things? Okay. And then you can make a decision I love this idea. Is anyone listening. Like I hope you got that.

00;33;56;22 – 00;34;12;13
Rebecca Hay
Take a pen and paper. Listen to this episode again. Write that down. I think that was really powerful because I can attest to this. What you’re saying is sometimes we need to pay the bills, so we want to take on any project that comes your way. And you are right. They come from referrals. They come from our networks, they’re coming from somewhere.

00;34;12;20 – 00;34;32;22
Rebecca Hay
They don’t just come out of nowhere. And then it’s a slow build. That was my experience. I did not shut it all down, change my branding and explode overnight. My experience was with every project I charged a little bit more. I tried to infuse a new process a little like, I’m going to do it this way this time, and then next I’m going to do it.

00;34;32;22 – 00;34;45;03
Rebecca Hay
That way until I got closer and closer. I was strategic in my photoshoots. You know, this project, this isn’t what I want to display. But you know what? What if we just shoot the kitchen and I drop in all this great stuff?

00;34;45;05 – 00;34;45;21
Renee Bush
Yes.

00;34;45;21 – 00;34;53;15
Rebecca Hay
Slowly. And then I would be more intentional. More intentional, because that’s how I did it. And maybe that’s the slower way, but that felt safer to me.

00;34;53;21 – 00;35;09;07
Renee Bush
I think it is safer. And I’m going to go in and say, when I look at business, I tend to be a little bit conservative. You know, I want to take the surest, I mean, fastest, but the surest, fastest path right to success. And obviously, like, let’s define what success looks like. But but yeah, I mean, I think that it is it’s these small tweaks.

00;35;09;07 – 00;35;45;00
Renee Bush
And what I will say is that there are a lot of designers out there who aren’t changing anything, and then nothing changes. You can have the same type of projects for seven, eight, ten, 20 years and wonder why you’re not ratcheting up. But it’s because you’re not being strategic. If you don’t change anything, nothing will change. So if you want to ratchet up but you want to take like a more gradual approach, the way we do that is by collecting those testimonials, you know, creating more buffer charging a little bit more and then using that money on our branding, then taking that branding and making sure that it we’re putting it out into the world

00;35;45;00 – 00;35;59;07
Renee Bush
and showing people, you know, I always say your branding is the car you drive up in just because you drive an Audi that doesn’t make you successful. A good branding doesn’t make you successful. There are plenty of incredible designers that have branding that is from like 2000 and got glitter in it, or oh.

00;35;59;07 – 00;35;59;21
Rebecca Hay
My God.

00;35;59;21 – 00;36;00;06
Renee Bush
I’m crazy.

00;36;00;09 – 00;36;02;23
Rebecca Hay
Stole it and they’re still making tons of money.

00;36;02;23 – 00;36;18;10
Renee Bush
Yes, making tons of money you can drive up in a crawl and be a millionaire. But if you drive up in a Corolla, you’re going to have to work a lot harder to prove that you are successful. If you drive up in a nice car, you don’t have to work so hard to prove it. Again, it’s not indicative of the actual truth.

00;36;18;10 – 00;36;28;01
Renee Bush
It’s all perception. But like, yeah, if you can buy the nice car and drive up and everyone believes that you’re successful and then they give you money like that’s nice, that works. You know, like don’t go into that.

00;36;28;02 – 00;36;29;18
Rebecca Hay
But like, yeah like but.

00;36;29;18 – 00;36;50;06
Renee Bush
Yeah I think that like if you’re making all these choices, I think where people get into trouble and why they work with me is because it is very hard to be intentional and strategic if you don’t know what you’re trying to do. Like you just said, I was really strategic about my photoshoots and I’d bring this stuff in, but in order to do that correctly or effectively, you need to know who am I trying to attract?

00;36;50;09 – 00;37;08;24
Renee Bush
What kind of artwork would they want to see? Why is this one picture not something I want to display, and I want to pull that out and bring something else in. What kind of kitchen towel would they like? What kind of feeling and vibe in their kitchen are they looking for? You know, are they lemons on the counter people or sourdough bread sliced on a cutting board?

00;37;08;29 – 00;37;29;18
Renee Bush
You need to be thinking about who am I trying to attract? You know, I think people end up doing what we were talking about the very beginning. They see all these things other people are doing, and they’re just doing a smattering of all of that. And then overworking and not feeling like it’s moving the needle. And the way we change that is by saying, don’t worry about everybody else.

00;37;29;18 – 00;37;52;25
Renee Bush
Focus on you. What type of projects do you want? How much money do you want to make? What a size team feels right for you? How much do you want to be collaborating, delegating, working with other people versus controlling and managing? Who is your ideal client? Do you want to be working with people that show up in, you know, heels and and like a pencil skirt, or do you want to be working with people that show up in flip flops and cut off shorts?

00;37;52;28 – 00;38;03;18
Renee Bush
I’ve talked to designers about this all the time, and sometimes it blows my mind how they’ll be like, oh no, no, I my ideal client does not have any pets. And I’m like, oh, okay, good to know. You know, really specific.

00;38;03;18 – 00;38;04;26
Rebecca Hay
I love that really specific.

00;38;04;26 – 00;38;22;25
Renee Bush
Don’t I love to get into like are they drinking spicy margaritas or are they like a sauvignon blanc kind of lady? Are they do they go to on trips to Disneyland or Paris? You know, I want to be like, who is this person down to? The nitty gritty is detail. Are there kids playing lacrosse or swim team? Are they members of the yacht club, you know?

00;38;22;25 – 00;38;43;21
Renee Bush
Or is this like, you know, they’re taking out a headlock and they’re going to be updating their house and they’re going to just let you run with it. And they’re not that picky. And you know what I mean? Like, there’s great clients in every category. You just got to know what yours are. And then you make those small adjustments in every facet of your business that then attracts that person.

00;38;43;21 – 00;38;57;17
Renee Bush
And we lay the groundwork. And then it happens over time. And I would say typically that takes like if you’re thoughtful about it like 6 to 18 months and you’ll notice your business is completely transformed by making small choices that make big impact.

00;38;57;17 – 00;39;21;19
Rebecca Hay
I love that I know there’s designers listening right now who are like, how the heck do I know if my ideal client is a spicy margarita drinker? Or is this over on your blog? What about the yacht club? Or what about the golf club? Because a lot of designers didn’t grow up with wealth. They didn’t grow up exposed to fancy private schools, trips on a yacht.

00;39;21;19 – 00;39;37;02
Rebecca Hay
And so though they want to serve those people, it’s harder to understand because you’re not in the room. You don’t understand really, the pain points. Yes. How do you advise designers who are in this situation to learn and understand more who they want to serve?

00;39;37;04 – 00;39;59;12
Renee Bush
I’ve never been asked that question. I love it the thing I would say is that if you struggle to really understand that super high end clientele, it might be difficult for you to serve them well. So why don’t you find an ideal client that you do understand very, very well and try to serve them well? And then as you learn and stretch and grow, that ideal client will evolve.

00;39;59;14 – 00;40;21;24
Renee Bush
You know, I have someone who had an ideal client that was like, you know, we’ll call her. Evelyn came and she was like in her late 40s and she was working and her husband was working. And they have one dog and two kids, and blah, blah, blah. Right. Over the years, what this designer learned is that she actually liked working with Susan, who is 65, and this was her seventh house, and it’s her vacation home.

00;40;21;24 – 00;40;35;16
Renee Bush
And, you know, she’s traveling all over with her best girlfriends and she doesn’t care. And her kids are grown, and it’s a totally different client. But it was still effective working with Evelyn until she learned she wanted to be working for Susan.

00;40;35;20 – 00;40;36;21
Rebecca Hay
It’s like a stepping stone.

00;40;36;25 – 00;40;54;11
Renee Bush
It’s a stepping stone. And I think that so often people want to rush to the end and they want everything to be perfect. And I’m kind of like, start with where, you know, start with what’s working. Let’s lean into what’s working. So I mean, I would say, look at your friends, look at your neighbors, look at your family, and kind of think like one level above that.

00;40;54;15 – 00;41;15;12
Renee Bush
Yeah. And take all the like, best parts of the people that you’ve worked with, you know, like, okay, they probably do drive a luxury car, but they probably don’t collect cars. They probably maybe eat pretty healthy, but they’re like addicted to Diet Coke. Think about yourself. And also like your ideal client shouldn’t be exactly like you. They should be complimentary to you.

00;41;15;15 – 00;41;32;14
Renee Bush
You don’t want to like. For example, if you’re super detail oriented, you don’t want to attract someone that’s also super detail oriented. That’s going to create tension. If you’re super detail oriented, you want to attract someone who’s like, oh my gosh, I’m so overwhelmed by all these details. I need someone to take this on. So you have to think about that in your messaging.

00;41;32;14 – 00;41;50;03
Renee Bush
You have to think about that when you’re telling people on a discovery call, say, a lot of times my clients love working with me because I really pay attention to all the details, and most of my clients get really overwhelmed by how many decisions there are, how many tiny details are, and all the like managing everything. And that’s why they love to hire me.

00;41;50;06 – 00;41;51;19
Rebecca Hay
I love that.

00;41;51;19 – 00;41;56;07
Renee Bush
Yeah, the wrong client will go, oh well, I love all the details. Okay, good to know.

00;41;56;09 – 00;42;09;24
Rebecca Hay
I love that because when I have butted heads with clients, it’s because they think they’re really good at the thing that I think I’m really good at. Yeah. And so it’s like butting heads. Yeah. Yes. Totally.

00;42;09;24 – 00;42;29;21
Renee Bush
But discovery calls to me are one of the most important things if you use them. Right. Consultations are the same. Like it’s, it’s that interview process. So whether it’s in the discovery call or the consultation. But I love the word typically I love to say typically I do full home projects. Typically my clients do this. Typically that doesn’t even need to be true if you’ve never done a full home project.

00;42;29;21 – 00;42;48;26
Renee Bush
But you say, typically I’m doing full scope projects, you’re creating that perception. That is branding. You are saying, this is what I normally do, and people want to hire someone who consistently does what they need. They want to hire someone that they’re confident. Oftentimes they don’t want to hire the person. That’s like, well, I’ve never done that before.

00;42;48;26 – 00;43;07;15
Renee Bush
And now they are and you’ve never done it. You can communicate that and say, you know what? I’ve never done a project this scale. I think I could do a really great job. Let’s talk through that and let me explain why I think it would be good. And maybe you’re willing to offer some type of like slight discount or like something to, like make it where it’s like, hey, take a risk on me and you’ll get a benefit.

00;43;07;15 – 00;43;27;00
Renee Bush
And I’m going to be really transparent that I’ve never done that. But like, I love just setting the tone of typically my clients love me because I do x, Y, and Z, and you tell them exactly how you want it to go. And most clients want to be good clients. They want to be your favorite client. And if you tell them how to do that, they will work pretty hard for the most part.

00;43;27;00 – 00;43;31;14
Renee Bush
Most people, they want to be easy. They just don’t know how. Most of the time.

00;43;31;16 – 00;43;37;20
Rebecca Hay
Yeah, I love that most clients want to be good clients. Guys, did you hear that? It’s such a good reminder.

00;43;37;21 – 00;43;39;07
Renee Bush
They really do, just like we do.

00;43;39;11 – 00;43;40;13
Rebecca Hay
Totally.

00;43;40;13 – 00;43;54;01
Renee Bush
I would be a nightmare client for a lot of things, but if someone tells me how to be a good client, I’m going to be I’m going to do my best. I’m going to communicate the way they ask, you know what I mean? Like, I’m going to try really hard to like if they say, like, I really need to make sure that these things get paid on time, otherwise it can cause these problems.

00;43;54;01 – 00;43;56;09
Renee Bush
I’m gonna be like, oh, I know that’s a priority. I’m going to try to do that.

00;43;56;11 – 00;44;01;09
Rebecca Hay
Yeah, but they don’t know what they don’t know. And so if you can’t educate them and set those parameters then it’s harder for them.

00;44;01;15 – 00;44;19;29
Renee Bush
Absolutely. Yes. But you got to know what they are. And I think that that’s where again, going back to where you were saying designers need to take more control. I think that that’s where strategy comes in. And I think sometimes we’re so busy as business owners serving our own clients and worrying about everybody else’s stuff. And that’s why I think business coaching, business consulting is so powerful.

00;44;20;06 – 00;44;40;11
Renee Bush
You carve out the time, you get a sounding board, you have someone that’s seen inside lots of other businesses but can apply it to you. That can help you work through this stuff. If you can’t visualize your ideal client, sit down with someone that can help you brainstorm that. If you don’t know what you should be charging, talk to someone who can help you figure out what’s normal for your market in your area, so you don’t have to beat your head against a wall.

00;44;40;17 – 00;44;47;02
Renee Bush
Figuring it out on your own when you could literally hire someone to help you with that and then go make twice as much money the next week.

00;44;47;07 – 00;45;18;08
Rebecca Hay
Yes, yes. Hallelujah! I’m all for investing in personal and professional development. It has been the accelerator for me. And I see it with my community with designers. I talk to you. You’re so spot on. One last question I have for you that I wasn’t going to ask you, but now you’ve got me really thinking about this when we talk about branding, we talk about business and, and knowing that you worked for such a recognizable brand, how much do you believe having a consistent esthetic, matters?

00;45;18;14 – 00;45;37;23
Rebecca Hay
And more specifically, because there is an esthetic now that is popular, right, that there’s always going to be trends, if you will, let’s say studio McGee is a great example. Do designers need to follow those trends and those esthetics to have a strong brand and be successful?

00;45;37;29 – 00;46;01;09
Renee Bush
Okay. Thank you for asking this question. This is something I’m actually pretty passionate about. So oftentimes when I’m working with someone, what I want to do is help them find what I call your signature. And I don’t think it’s about having a signature esthetic, but I do think you need to have a signature something. So I like to try to boil it down to is it a signature esthetic, a signature process, a signature philosophy or a signature approach?

00;46;01;16 – 00;46;19;07
Renee Bush
What your signature is, is the product that you’re selling. And again, building that trust. When you have a consistent product and you can consistently sell a signature esthetic, it is just an easier sell. I will say that the easiest way to build an interior design business is to have a very clear esthetic that you put out super consistently.

00;46;19;10 – 00;46;38;01
Renee Bush
Everyone knows what they’re getting and they say, sign me up, I like it, I want it, but it’s not always the most creatively fulfilling. So people get into this battle of like, well, I don’t want to just do the same thing all the time. So that’s where we can lean into a signature approach. And maybe you say we approach every project considering the architecture, you know, finding out your life style.

00;46;38;03 – 00;47;03;18
Renee Bush
Here’s how we go about it. Every project’s going to be custom. No. Two homes look the same, but every single home by its designer is going to be blah blah blah blah blah. As soon as you can put words around it and you can confidently articulate, this is what I’m consistently delivering, I think that that gives a similar result, even though I will say, I do think a signature esthetic is the fastest way to a successful business, but it’s not the only way.

00;47;03;18 – 00;47;27;04
Renee Bush
But I think it’s around. And how do we create a consistent product or deliverable that people can count on, that we can then message out, talk about and say, like I said, a philosophy, right? Like, what is your philosophy? Home should feel like x, y, z. And here’s how I go about that. People just need to wrap their arms around this very intangible thing and feel like they know what they’re going to get.

00;47;27;04 – 00;47;30;10
Renee Bush
And I think the esthetic is an easy way to do that. But it’s not the only way.

00;47;30;14 – 00;47;50;25
Rebecca Hay
I actually really love what you said there. Having a consistent esthetic is the fastest way to be successful, but not the only way. That right there is like proof. Like if you guys have been like kind of multitasking, come back to us because that to me is a good message. It works. It obviously works. But you’re right, it’s not always super fulfilling.

00;47;50;28 – 00;48;06;26
Rebecca Hay
Unless maybe you only autograph those projects, but you’re going to keep attracting that type of client. I do feel that there’s power in having a consistent esthetic, but I love that you said that it’s the fastest way, but not the only way. Oh my gosh, this has been such a great conversation, Renee. I feel that all day. I love talking about this stuff.

00;48;06;29 – 00;48;15;18
Rebecca Hay
I know that we’re going to get to your nugget in a second, but I know that you help designers with strategy. Right? Tell me a little bit about that. I want to be able to, like, send people your way.

00;48;15;22 – 00;48;38;00
Renee Bush
Absolutely. So I work in two main ways. I would say the majority of the strategy work I do is one off sessions. I feel as a business owner, sometimes you need strategy when you need it and not when you don’t. You can’t always implement everything constantly. And so I love to do one off sessions. I feel like that’s the most beneficial for my clients, and I typically start with a 90 minute session.

00;48;38;02 – 00;48;57;01
Renee Bush
Obviously I have them fill out like a very deep questionnaire. But then I can do research ahead of time. I want to see Instagram. I want to see your website. Oftentimes people send me documents so that I can review those and just come to that meeting extremely prepared on like, what is the outside perception? What am I seeing internally in the questionnaire?

00;48;57;03 – 00;49;17;26
Renee Bush
And then being able to show up and really talk through it. And what I find often is that what people say in the questionnaire versus what they say in person versus what I see online is not aligned. And so they don’t even realize it in the questionnaire. They kind of often give the like supposed two answers. And then in person they’re like, well, it doesn’t always go like that.

00;49;17;26 – 00;49;44;23
Renee Bush
And it’s like when we can start to look at that and say, hey, here are some adjustments we can make to like bring those things together so often. Focus on usually pricing strategy first or ideal client. Those are like oftentimes things I do because I think they make the biggest, fastest impact. But other than that, talking about team organization process like lots of different things or even just like troubleshooting, you know, I have someone that came recently that was like, I’ve sent several bids and I’m getting ghosted.

00;49;44;26 – 00;49;59;24
Renee Bush
And then we developed a whole plan for like, okay, well, you know, let’s check your pricing. Let’s make sure the proposal looks good in the consultation. Let’s set up a second call where you can review the proposal. And then we just had like a game plan. And then, you know, I check back in a little bit later and like okay how’s it going.

00;49;59;27 – 00;50;20;19
Renee Bush
So sometimes you just need a sounding board and like troubleshooting. Totally. And then additionally I do work with a few clients on a retainer model, typically 4 to 6 months standard consulting where you’re meeting every other week. And we’re doing a more holistic review of every area of the business. So everything from pricing strategy to marketing strategy process, things like that.

00;50;20;19 – 00;50;42;14
Renee Bush
So I have a small team and we all kind of pitch in and help with updating process documents to, you know, setting up sort of our going through and creating like a discovery call script. So it really just depends on the needs of that business specifically. But those are my strategy offerings. And then additionally, we also offer branding and website design and building.

00;50;42;14 – 00;50;58;14
Renee Bush
Really everything we do is around helping designers take their business to the next level and really elevate. And so for me, it’s internal, external, and then like the brand and the website showing up as beautifully as possible, all of those things are going to help take your business to the next level.

00;50;58;18 – 00;51;02;21
Rebecca Hay
What a designer who hasn’t launched their business yet be a good fit for you.

00;51;02;23 – 00;51;25;12
Renee Bush
Yeah, absolutely. That’s why I love a 90 minute session. Anybody can afford 90 minutes. And I would say most of my clients get enough out of a 90 minute session that they’re working on implementing that for 3 to 6 months. It’s not like, okay, here are two little things. You know, this is a deep dive that like, you honestly have enough to go on and like really start to implement for a while to see some pretty massive changes.

00;51;25;14 – 00;51;42;12
Renee Bush
So I think that my skill set really lends itself to like one on one. You know, I think a lot of times when consultants get busier, they do less one on one. And I just really love being one on one and then custom strategies. So it’s like, let’s put the blinders on, not worry about anybody else. Let’s focus on what’s going to work for you and how do we move the needle.

00;51;42;12 – 00;51;46;22
Renee Bush
Two degrees here. That will get you in a totally different place in 12 months.

00;51;46;29 – 00;51;51;01
Rebecca Hay
I love that you’re like really focused on it is small steps, guys.

00;51;51;04 – 00;51;52;07
Renee Bush
It’s small things.

00;51;52;10 – 00;52;07;24
Rebecca Hay
It’s small things that are going to get you to that impact longer term, like six months, eight a year, 18 months. It sounds far, but it’s not. If you just start making those changes now I love this, I love this. Okay. What is your last nugget of wisdom for us before we wrap up today?

00;52;08;01 – 00;52;28;15
Renee Bush
This is something I found out by interviewing people. I was like talking to a lot of different designers. And I started realizing that a lot of people are doing this, and I realized I was doing it in that I feel like when people are first starting their businesses or they’re early on, they have this false belief that they are going to build their business to a point where then they can relax.

00;52;28;18 – 00;52;43;11
Renee Bush
There is this like false belief that was once I just get it going, once it’s built, once I get there, once I and it’s like this, once I get to the top of the mountain, I’m going to be able to sit and chill and relax and enjoy all the fruits of my labors. It does not exist.

00;52;43;17 – 00;52;48;07
Rebecca Hay
Boom! You just busted the myth of every entrepreneur in the world.

00;52;48;14 – 00;53;15;07
Renee Bush
It doesn’t exist. You will never reach the top of the mountain. You need to learn to rest along the way. You need to learn to enjoy your business at every phase. You know, I remember meeting with this like agency owner. This was years ago when I first started this agency owner, and she was just honestly being so kind to meet with me and tell me about her experience and she was just mentoring and she said something she’s like, oh, I just remember when I used to have these projects of that size and those were the glory years, right?

00;53;15;07 – 00;53;32;28
Renee Bush
Like, you know, clients were easier. The scopes were smaller. I had so much fun. It was clients were just so happy all the time. And I was sitting there like, my clients are happy all the time. And this scope is pretty, like easy. And I wasn’t enjoying it. I was trying to think about how to just get bigger, bigger, better, better.

00;53;32;28 – 00;53;51;08
Renee Bush
And now I feel like I really tried to enjoy my business at every stage. Because just because you make more money doesn’t mean that all the stress goes away. I just think that’s so often people burn out. They put way too much into it, waiting to get to this point where they’re going to finally get to relax and enjoy it.

00;53;51;08 – 00;54;07;19
Renee Bush
And I just think that never happens. We have to learn to relax and enjoy it along the way. We have to learn to make money as we go. We have to learn to take time, stop not try to have this instant sense of urgency, slow down to speed up. And I just think that a lot of business owners forget that.

00;54;07;19 – 00;54;19;22
Renee Bush
It’s not about getting it built. It’s about enjoying the building. You should enjoy it every day and not just once this fall. Success is reach that we will never get to.

00;54;19;25 – 00;54;28;06
Rebecca Hay
It’s finding a way to enjoy your life every day. Yeah, and not putting everything on hold until Sunday. Because some days aren’t coming.

00;54;28;09 – 00;54;43;15
Renee Bush
It’s not coming. Designers that have been doing this 25 years, they’ve been through recessions, they’ve been through the Instagram, changing everything. They’ve been through Covid, they’ve been there’s never a point where it’s just like, okay, cool. The clients are just going to come and everything’s just going to work. And my process is done and I don’t need to change it anymore.

00;54;43;15 – 00;55;01;11
Renee Bush
I finally have it perfect. It’s like it’s a constant evolution. So enjoy the process of problem solving and figuring things out. And if you’re not, if it’s not feeling good, if it’s not feeling easy, most of the time it’s small tweaks that can make the difference, and it might be worth getting an outside opinion.

00;55;01;17 – 00;55;05;00
Rebecca Hay
100% I love it. I love it. Okay, where can everyone find and follow you?

00;55;05;00 – 00;55;15;25
Renee Bush
Renee, you can follow us on Instagram at with underscore tandem. So with tandem and then online ad with tandem.com. Yeah please reach out. We’d loved love to talk to you.

00;55;15;27 – 00;55;18;26
Rebecca Hay
Awesome. Thank you so much. This has been such a great conversation.

00;55;18;26 – 00;55;22;22
Renee Bush
Thank you. This was wonderful.

00;55;22;25 – 00;55;41;27
Rebecca Hay
I loved that conversation with Renee. What a fascinating way of looking at things. And I know these are topics that you’ve probably heard before, but doesn’t it help to hear it from someone else’s perspective? And as someone such an incredible experience that we chatted offline after our interview and I asked her name, like, how long have you been doing this?

00;55;41;27 – 00;56;16;02
Rebecca Hay
A consulting with designers for five years. Like that’s a long time. Plus, she has all that experience working. I mean, hello, studio McGee. They’re not nobody, right? I don’t even need to talk about who they are on this podcast. So I think that was really useful conversation. I wanted to add, actually, as she was talking about figuring out who your ideal client was and then up leveling, because if you remember, I asked that question about what do we do if we are not privy to a lifestyle of the rich and famous, or of the people that have their kids in private school who are members of the golf club, like it’s really hard if you

00;56;16;02 – 00;56;33;04
Rebecca Hay
have not been exposed to that world in depth, how are you going to know that client in depth? And so I love where her advice was, let’s do this stepping stone. Let’s start working with this one client, and then eventually you’re going to get there. And I wanted to share something because as she was talking I was like, oh my God, I have to share this.

00;56;33;04 – 00;56;59;29
Rebecca Hay
But I thought I would wait till the outro yesterday I got a DM in my Instagram from a Power of Process alumni who took pop two years ago and she sent me this DM. This is proof is in the pudding that what Rene said about leveling your ICA up works. This designer said, hey Rebecca, I just wrapped up my first million dollar build project and just signed up another one, which is a beach house for an NFL player.

00;57;00;04 – 00;57;19;26
Rebecca Hay
Still using the systems I’ve learned from you inside power of process. Taking on projects that align with the life that I want to design for myself. I have so much gratitude. I’m in process of doing a bit of rebranding as I’ve now further scrutinized my ideal client. I’m no longer afraid not to be the designer for the masses, I get it.

00;57;19;26 – 00;57;45;01
Rebecca Hay
Thank you x o x. Oh, I mean, not only does that make me so happy to see, but it’s proof that as you grow, you can make those micro changes. Just like Rene said. You can do that 2% because look at that. In only two years this designer is designing beach houses for NFL players. Hello people. Imagine if you could get that clarity and you could grow your business.

00;57;45;01 – 00;58;04;10
Rebecca Hay
It’s possible for you. I get super passionate about this. I really hope you enjoyed this episode. I’d love to hear your takeaways. I always ask, please DM me on Instagram and tell me what your takeaways are because surprisingly, not that many people do DM me hahaha. Go give Rene a follow. Follow her journey because I think that she is a really smart cookie.

00;58;04;10 – 00;58;16;21
Rebecca Hay
Thanks again Rene for being on the podcast and everybody. I will see you soon.