This is a MUST-listen episode, especially for all those interested (or intimidated) by budget conversations! Nikki Fisher is a seasoned design firm owner who got her start working in the millwork arena, which truly helped her run her own interior design business successfully over the past decade.
Nikki candidly shares her battle with imposter syndrome, transferring her skills from one niche to another, and the one question she asks at every single discovery call to ensure all expectations are set for each client.
Her expanded approach to budget will seriously blow your mind! Nikki concentrates on deep listening and observation, communication, and education as she works with clients to establish their budgets and to ensure that each client feels heard and understood above anything else.
Nikki does not allow her dedication to her clients to comprise her values and boundaries as she strives to find the tricky balance to helping people while maintaining a hard line between budget and process. She also shares why she signed up for POP even though she is a seasoned professional and reiterates her beliefs in her incredibly motivational nugget of wisdom! This is an episode you don’t want to miss!
Episode Highlights
- Effective Budget Conversations: Learn how to confidently discuss budgets with clients, ensuring they feel heard while managing expectations.
- Balancing Creativity and Cost: Nikki Fisher shares her approach to presenting high-quality design options within client budgets without compromising on creativity.
- Overcoming Budget Challenges: Rebecca Hay and Nikki discuss real-life scenarios where design budgets were stretched and how to navigate these situations successfully.
- Tips for New Designers: Insightful advice for designers transitioning into full-service design and navigating initial client conversations about costs and services.
- Handling Pushback: Strategies to handle client hesitations and present the value of investing in quality design elements.
- Maintaining Professional Boundaries: How to stay true to your process, set boundaries, and avoid common pitfalls, even when clients try to lead the project.
Episode Resources
Read the Full Transcript ⬇️
Rebecca Hay:
Welcome to the podcast, Nikki. I’m excited to finally be speaking with you one-on-one. We’ve known each other off-screen for a while but never had a chance to connect like this. So, welcome!
Nikki Fisher:
Thank you for having me. I’m so excited for our conversation today.
Rebecca Hay:
Yes, we have a juicy topic lined up! I can’t believe we haven’t covered this before on the podcast. It’s going to be really good. But before we dive in, why don’t you introduce yourself to our listeners?
Nikki Fisher:
Alright, I’m Nikki Fisher, and I’ve been running NFT Designs Inc. for—oh my gosh—just over a decade now. I think I’ve hit my 12 or 14-year mark, somewhere in that bracket. Before starting NFT Designs, I worked for a custom cabinetry manufacturer in Etobicoke for about four and a half years.
I worked my way up from starting right out of school to managing and running the showroom, overseeing two junior designers before I left. That’s how my career began. I love millwork, trim, cabinetry, and all that stuff. It was such a great introduction to the industry and has influenced what NFT Designs is known for today.
Rebecca Hay:
This is such perfect timing. I feel like the universe always works this way for me. It’s amazing. Yesterday, inside Designer’s Room, we did one of our monthly hot seat Q&A calls, where members can submit questions. One designer, who is in the U.S. and just launching her firm, was worried because she has about a decade of experience working for her father-in-law’s millwork company but hasn’t done much full-service design.
She was nervous about going out on her own and wondered if she should be upfront with clients about not having experience in other areas of design. I’m sure she’ll be listening to this episode. What would you say to a designer coming from that background—working in a millwork company or custom cabinetry company—who wants to launch a full-service interior design firm? What did that transition look like for you?
Was it challenging to find clients? What advice would you give? I know that expertise is so valuable when running a design firm, but I’m curious about your experience.
Nikki Fisher:
Yes, it’s invaluable. For me, it started with clients from the cabinetry company. We mostly did custom homes, so the builders would often tell the clients, “The first things you need to figure out are your appliances and your cabinetry.” There’s a lot of cabinetry involved in custom homes, and the kitchen is a big part of that.
Clients would come to me for cabinetry, and I’d help them through the kitchen design process, or with vanities, wine rooms, or whatever custom cabinetry they needed. Often, they’d say, “This is great! Can you help us with the rest of the house?” I discussed this with my employer, and he was open to it. So, outside of my full-time hours, I started consulting on things like tile, plumbing fixtures, lighting, and furniture.
I could only take on one or two clients a year because I was still working full-time. But it evolved naturally. Clients who came for cabinetry assistance realized they needed help with other decisions and asked if I could assist. That’s how it started for me. When I left to pursue design on my own, I definitely felt those same feelings of uncertainty.
I didn’t have the same experience as someone who had been in the industry for years, but I recognized the skill set I brought from cabinetry design. The attention to detail required, the knowledge of manufacturing and engineering processes, and problem-solving all translate well to the design and decorating world. You just have to get your feet wet and start somewhere.
Even if you’re branching out into a new area, like this designer who’s moving from millwork to full-service design, the skills are transferable. It’s a natural transition, but it’s scary. There are so many skills, especially related to custom furniture, that make the transition seamless.
Rebecca Hay:
Yes, and the attention to detail is so trained in you when you’re used to doing millwork drawings or kitchen drawings. You have to measure everything meticulously. Those are skills not every designer has when they start their business. I think coming from that millwork background is actually very advantageous for running a design firm.
Nikki Fisher:
Yes, exactly. The level of detail we focus on when designing cabinetry is on another level. There are so many things to pay attention to. When I left that world to start my own design firm, I definitely experienced feelings of, “Do I know what I’m doing?” But the skills you gain are so valuable in design.
You learn about the manufacturing process, how things get made, problem-solving—all of that translates well. You have to start somewhere, always. You gain experience in one area, and then you branch out creatively into other areas in the design world. It’s scary, but there are so many transferable skills from millwork to custom furniture and beyond.
Rebecca Hay:
Yes, and I was saying that the attention to detail trained in you is invaluable. Not every designer has that skill when they start. So, coming from a millwork background is a huge advantage when running a design firm.
Nikki Fisher:
Yes, absolutely. The attention to detail is critical, and it’s difficult to convey how much we focus on in cabinetry design. That level of precision is a valuable asset when transitioning to full-service design.
Rebecca Hay:
So, you were working with full-home projects, and then you went out on your own. I want to talk about budgets because it’s such a hot topic. When I started my design firm, I worked for a high-end luxury designer in Toronto. It was a great experience, but when I got my own clients, they were not luxury clients. Little 28-year-old Rebecca Hay wasn’t attracting multimillion-dollar homes in Forest Hill.
I was working with people on a budget, and I struggled with budgeting because I didn’t know the return on investment. Clients would say they wanted what they saw in a magazine but didn’t have the money for it. It was champagne taste on a beer budget. Let’s dive into that. When do you push your clients, and when do you just present what fits their budget? What’s your experience with that?
Nikki Fisher:
Yes, it’s a difficult topic because every project and client is unique. Ultimately, I think the foundation of budget discussions is conversation and communication. No one likes talking about money, but it’s necessary. It’s about getting comfortable having these conversations. It takes time and practice to develop that skill.
Rebecca Hay:
I love that—“The foundation of budget is conversation and communication.” Write that down, everyone!
Nikki Fisher:
Yes, exactly. You have to get comfortable talking about it, and that doesn’t happen overnight. I’ve been doing this for over a decade, and only in the last 3 or 4 years have I felt truly comfortable having these conversations, especially with the busyness of the pandemic. It’s a skill that takes time to develop. But you need to start somewhere.
One thing that stuck with me from my cabinetry days is to always ask the question, “What are you prepared to invest?” instead of talking about budget. Budget sounds restrictive. I use the word “invest” because it shifts the conversation. If a client doesn’t know, I throw out numbers: “Do you have 100k? 200k? 500k?” Just to see how they respond.
During my cabinetry days, my employer would initially take down all the information—what they needed, what they were looking for, kitchen, bathrooms, etc.—and establish their budget. Sometimes, the builders had a line item for cabinetry in their budget. I’d get a budget and the client’s inspiration, then put together a design and budget.
When I presented the kitchen, I’d go through the drawings first, then show the budget at the end. I always started with the drawings to gauge their reactions. I’m very attuned to people’s body language and energy shifts. When I’d see their energy change, I’d know they were looking for something specific they had mentioned earlier that wasn’t there. I knew why they were disappointed.
I’d see this all the time. They would say, “We asked for this and didn’t get it.” I’d explain that we could do it, but it would be extra. They’d say, “That’s fine. We want to know how much it costs.” So, I’d go back to my employer, get the extra pricing, and go through it again. We’d go through this process every time.
It was exhausting, but it was worth it because they ended up with something they were happy with. I share this story with every new client because listening to the client and informing them is more important than the final number. The more transparent and communicative we can be, the better the end result will be.
As a designer, it’s not about choosing the most expensive things or the cheapest, but finding a balance. We know certain pieces, like sofas and beds, should be of good quality. It’s about spending wisely where it matters and educating clients on why certain items are worth investing in.
It’s difficult to explain to clients all the intricacies we’re considering, but the more we can communicate and educate them, the more they’ll understand where their money is going and why.
If you provide clients with the right information, they can make educated decisions about where they want to spend more and where they can save. It’s not about always choosing the most expensive options or the cheapest, but finding the right balance. We know certain items should be of good quality, like everyday furniture, because it impacts the client’s experience. We’re responsible for the quality and want to ensure our clients don’t come back in a few years with complaints.
It’s about being transparent and communicative, so they understand why they’re investing in certain pieces. It’s all part of the budget conversation, beyond just dollars and cents.
Rebecca Hay:
Okay, so you were working on full-home projects, then started your own firm. Now, let’s talk about budgets because it’s a hot topic. How do you balance budget and creativity? When do you push clients and when do you respect the budget?
In my early years, I was always over budget because I focused on making things beautiful without paying attention to cost. I had to learn to reel it back and respect the budget while still being creative. How do you manage that now?
Nikki Fisher:
For me, it comes down to communication. Before we even sign a client, we have a discovery call, then a consultation, where I explain the cost of things and what they can expect. If their expectations are unrealistic, we discuss that upfront. I don’t want to limit myself creatively, but I also want the client to feel heard.
If I’m presenting a light fixture that’s $1,200 and another that’s $3,800, I explain why the more expensive one is special. I give them the option to decide if they want to invest in it. They need to feel in control and heard while also understanding the creative vision. It’s about presenting options and letting them make informed decisions.
When clients feel heard and understood, they’re more likely to trust the process. It’s not about pushing them to spend more but about showing them the value of what they’re investing in. The same goes for design solutions. If a client wants a specific design element but the cost is too high, I offer alternatives that still achieve a similar effect within budget. It’s all about problem-solving and creativity.
Rebecca Hay:
Yes, and sometimes clients find the money for things they value. I remember a project where a client decided to replace all the doors in their home after I suggested it. They hadn’t even thought about it before, but once it was on their radar, they couldn’t unsee it. That’s why they hire us—to provide that professional insight.
Nikki Fisher:
Exactly! They come to us for guidance and expertise. It’s our job to show them what’s possible and help them make informed decisions, even if it means pushing them a little out of their comfort zone. We’re here to help them achieve their vision, and sometimes that means showing them options they hadn’t considered.
Rebecca Hay:
Exactly! It’s our job to guide them through this process, showing them the value of each option without overwhelming them. We’re here to help them make the best decisions for their space, even if it means pushing them a little outside their comfort zone. That’s how you build trust and create beautiful, functional spaces that they love.
Nikki Fisher:
Yes, it’s all about trust and communication. I find that the more transparent and honest I am with clients, the more they appreciate it. It’s not about pushing them to spend more but helping them understand why certain things are worth the investment. When they see the value, they’re more willing to invest in their space.
Rebecca Hay:
Absolutely, and that’s why it’s so important to have these conversations early on. It sets the tone for the entire project and helps manage expectations. If you’re upfront and honest from the beginning, clients are more likely to trust your recommendations and the process as a whole.
Nikki Fisher:
Yes, exactly. I always make sure to have those tough conversations early on, whether it’s about budget or expectations. It helps avoid misunderstandings down the line and makes the whole process smoother for everyone involved.
Rebecca Hay:
Yes, and for those listening, it’s crucial to know your numbers and be confident in presenting them. Early in my career, I didn’t want to talk about money. I’d say, “We’ll discuss more at the consultation,” and then realize we were on completely different pages. Knowing your numbers and being upfront can save so much time and confusion.
Nikki Fisher:
Absolutely. You need to be clear about what things cost and what your fees are. During the discovery call, I usually give a range based on the project size and scope. If the client isn’t comfortable with those numbers, it’s better to know early on rather than wasting time. It’s all about clear communication and setting expectations from the beginning.
Rebecca Hay:
Yes, and if you’re just starting out and don’t have historical data, lean on your community of designers. Ask around, get some ballpark figures, and start with those. You don’t have to know everything, but having a general idea will help you navigate those conversations with confidence.
Nikki Fisher:
Yes, exactly. And there’s no shame in asking your peers for advice. We’re all in this together. The more we can support each other, the stronger our industry becomes. It’s about setting a standard for what design services should cost and educating clients on the value we bring to the table.
Rebecca Hay:
Yes, and it’s about showing up as the professional and being confident in your process. You don’t want to be following the client’s process because they don’t know what they’re doing. You need to lead them through it. That’s how you create a successful and enjoyable experience for everyone involved.
Nikki Fisher:
Absolutely, and when you have a clear process, it’s easier to handle those challenging situations. It’s about knowing your boundaries and sticking to them. You can still be flexible and accommodating but within the framework of your process. That’s how you maintain control and deliver a great experience.
Rebecca Hay:
Yes, and having that structure in place makes all the difference. It’s not about being rigid, but about having a clear plan for how you work. It gives you the confidence to handle whatever comes up, and it reassures the client that you know what you’re doing.
Nikki Fisher:
Exactly. It’s about professionalism and setting expectations. When clients see that you have a process, they’re more likely to trust you and follow your lead.
Rebecca Hay:
Yes, and that’s so important. For those listening, don’t be afraid to set boundaries and stick to them. It’s not always easy, especially when you’re starting out, but it’s worth it in the long run. It helps you attract the right clients and run your business the way you want to.
Nikki Fisher:
Yes, and it’s okay to say no to a client if it’s not a good fit. It’s better to walk away from a project that doesn’t align with your values or process than to compromise and end up with a stressful situation. It’s all about knowing your worth and standing by it.
Rebecca Hay:
Absolutely! You’re not going to be the right fit for everyone, and that’s okay. The right clients will appreciate your process and the value you bring. They’re the ones who will respect your boundaries and trust your expertise.
Nikki Fisher:
Yes, and those are the clients who make the work enjoyable and rewarding. When you’re aligned with the right clients, it’s amazing what you can create together. It’s worth it to hold out for those clients and not settle for less.
Rebecca Hay:
Yes, and I think that’s a great note to end on. It’s all about finding the right clients, being confident in your process, and communicating clearly from the start. Thank you so much for joining me today, Nikki. This has been an incredible conversation.
Nikki Fisher:
Thank you for having me! It’s been so great to chat and share my experiences. I hope this has been helpful for your listeners.
Rebecca Hay:
It definitely has been. And before we wrap up, can you share where people can find you and follow along with your work?
Nikki Fisher:
Yes, you can find me on Instagram at @NFTDesigns, and my website is NFTDesigns.ca.
Rebecca Hay:
Amazing. Thank you so much, Nikki!
Nikki Fisher:
Thank you!
