Hiring for the first time and delegating tasks can be daunting at first, but the benefits of hiring an assistant can far outweigh the hurdle!

In this episode, I speak with Gina Cotner of Athena Executive Services about what the role of an executive virtual assistant can look like and the innumerable possibilities hiring one can open both personally and professionally. Learn why hiring qualified people that you can “coach and correct” will be the most valuable investment in your business as you empower others to free up your bandwidth.

Gina shares a myriad of ways these coordinators can take things off your plate, improve your stress levels, and boost your productivity. Her approaches towards milestones and performance tracking were extremely beneficial given my own roller coaster history with hiring. I know this episode is going to be extremely encouraging to those out there looking to get more personalized, qualified help!

Tune in to discover how an executive virtual assistant can transform your business and your life!

 

Episode Resources

Read the Full Transcript ⬇️

Hey, hey, hey, it’s Rebecca and you are listening to Resilient by Design. Today we talk about hiring. We talk about virtual executive assistants and dang. This was a really good conversation. It brought up a lot of the mistakes that I’ve made in growing my design firm, especially in the early years, how I messed up managing my hires, and the areas where I’ve made mistakes.

You can really find help that I would never have known about. This is an insightful conversation that I know you’re going to love. My guest today is Gina Kottner. She’s the CEO of Athena Executive Services, which is a firm that pairs virtual executive assistants around the US with swamped and successful entrepreneurs and executives.

Her team of high-caliber executive assistants work part-time. They work from home and they take many tasks and projects off the plate of successful people. That’s you and me, leaving them free to spend their time where they’re needed most. Gina herself has worked remotely for over 15 years on national and international teams.

More recently, she’s focused on the work-life balance, wellness, and personal satisfaction of people. Busy professionals. She’s known for developing leaders and having them rise up around her. This was a great conversation. Gina is a wealth of knowledge and I hope that if you take anything away from today’s episode, it’s that you can hire in your business.

It doesn’t have to be full-time. It could look very different than you think it should look. And we talked about that today. It could also make your life like your personal life. A heck of a lot easier and a lot more fun. And so we dive into that today in the conversation with Gina. Please enjoy. Welcome to the podcast, Gina.

I’m really excited to have you. I reached out to you because I am super keen to hear and learn more about virtual assistants and delegating and hiring. Oh, my goodness, all the things. But before we go there, can you introduce yourself to our listeners today? Thanks, Rebecca. Thanks for having me. Yeah, I am the founder and CEO of a company called Athena Executive Services.

And we are part of the vast, wild, crazy virtual assistant world. We provide us based executive assistants who work part-time and work shoulder-to-shoulder with really swamped and successful people. So that’s a little bit about me. And I think this is a great conversation to have. I think, you know, now more than ever, the designers that listening are feeling a little bit overwhelmed, like, Oh, I’d love to get some help.

How do I even go about finding someone in my business? And what does that look like? Do they have to be sitting here in an office? And let’s be honest, most. Interior design firm owners don’t have a studio. Like I’m blessed I have this big studio and in the past, I’ve had lots of people here, but you don’t need a studio to be successful and to have a team.

And I think that’s what’s kind of neat about what you do and what your company does is that you have qualified individuals who can help, I imagine, in all the different aspects. So when you say executive assistants, can you explain that a little bit more to me? So there are virtual assistants. And really, there is no right answer here.

Okay. So what I have to say about virtual assistance, personal assistance, admin assistance, and executive assistance is all interchangeable depending upon who you’re talking to and what they’re thinking. And sometimes depending upon the city you’re in, you know, if I say personal assistant in LA, they think executive assistant, I say personal assistant in Seattle, they think, Oh, that’s somebody who comes into your home and makes sure the laundry gets done and dinner gets prepped, you know, so it is really, unclear and you shouldn’t anybody who’s out there trying to shop.

Don’t be worried about saying, well, what do you mean when you when you guys say you guys are selling X, Y, Z? What do you mean? Does that mean somebody’s taking my car to the shop or does that mean somebody’s managing my calendar? Or is that both? When I dreamt up this business, I decided to use the term executive assistant, virtual executive assistants, just because I had this notion that, I think there are a lot of people out there who would like, what I call a high caliber.

Assistant high level of business acumen, and business experience. Maybe it’s akin to what somebody has on the 40th floor of the downtown high rise outside the office of the CEO, CMO, or CTO, they need that caliber, or they’d like that caliber of executive assistant, but maybe just 10 hours a week and that person could be a couple of times zones away.

So that’s, I, that’s why I came up with, well, let’s call them virtual and let’s call them executive assistants. Now, if you go shopping in the VA industry, does it mean a quote-unquote virtual assistant is not high caliber, a high level of business acumen? Not necessarily. They might be, but they might just refer to themselves as, yeah, I’m a VA, I’m a freelance VA.

I’m sitting at my dining room table in Boise, Idaho, and I’m available. Maybe they’re exactly the same as what my staff is. High caliber, part-time, virtual, and high-level. So it’s really a mishmash out there is what I would say. Now my, if I were to make the index myself, generally speaking, you have admin assistants, like if you were to go to, I live in Seattle most of the year, right?

So Amazon is a huge company, headquartered here. If you were to go look up the available assistant positions, you’ve got admin assistant one, admin assistant two, and admin assistant three. Then you have executive assistants. So there is a bit of a hierarchy and I guess what I’d watch out for in the industry.

And I don’t want to say watch out for, it’s not really good or bad, it just depends upon what you want. Do you want a task-doer? Because there are task doers out there, and getting tasks done is useful, and you don’t need to pay a lot for that. So when you get enamored by, ah, you know, my friend, my friend has a VA from the Philippines and they’re paying 6 an hour.

This is terrible. Yes, I’ve heard these stories. I’ve heard these stories. Yes, so, and it could be, maybe it would be excellent for you. I would equate that to task-doing, and it might be a great place to start. That’s different than somebody who might craft an email on your behalf to a client, or a prospective client, or somebody who you might have to manage your calendar, or manage your travel, or manage your CRM.

And I could be proven wrong, right? I’m sure that there are some Philippine VAs that really are rock stars, but that’s a huge part of the industry right now. It’s very sexy and alluring, right? What can I get done for 6 an hour? But there are challenges with that, obviously time zone and, and I think you know, even Tim Ferriss talked about it, I think in his book, four hour work week, he talked and this is what for a decade ago, I don’t know when he wrote it, but it’s not recently.

And he talked about going through several virtual assistants and having to train them and hold them accountable and, and, and, and. It’s funny, like hearing you say that I think about my early years running my design business out of my house, needing help, but having no money and hiring people on the cheap or for free at the time, like an intern, you know, needed the hours and feeling frustrated.

Oh God, I’m like laughing at my earlier self, but. Because nobody knew what to do. And I didn’t have systems set up. I didn’t have checklists. I didn’t have tasks. I didn’t even really know what needed to be done. I just knew I needed help and I wanted them to read my mind. And it took me a few years. And I think this is what we’re talking about of like that caliber level, that training level, that experience level until I a could afford or be clued into the fact that I needed more experienced, higher caliber assistants in my business that That person could actually take initiative, could actually run with something, could actually own it.

And it took me a while a lot of mistakes and probably a lot of wasted money if I’m really being honest, and more than anything, a lot of frustration. It was like as an early business owner, and I’m sure you see this, and I’m curious about your thoughts on delegation because as an early business owner, it was very hard for me to delegate.

Part of it is because I didn’t want to give up control, but the other part of it was I didn’t even know what I was delegating. Like can you go pick that thing up? And then when they’re done I don’t know, let, you know what, it’s going to take me too long to explain it to you. I’m just going to do it myself.

And I really think I held myself back in those early years because I knew enough to hire. So I think that was smart, but I don’t know that I was hiring the right skillset given what I needed. Do you see that? Yeah. Yes. So it’s just like anything, right? You kind of get what you pay for. So depends on how much effort you want to put in yourself.

So I will say. A lot about that. Actually, let me say a couple more things about the industry at large. And then, yeah, let’s look at like, how do you effectively work with somebody or delegate? And who are you going to have to be about that? So just to wrap up about the industry at large, if people are out there just shopping, right?

So you’ve got the overseas scene. He also includes Europe Africa and Asia, probably going to be cheaper. It’s going to come with a certain set of challenges. Then you have U.S.-based or North America-based agencies like mine. We’re certainly the most expensive, I’m quite certain because you’re paying for us to go do the finding, the vetting, the developing.

Oh, you have an issue with them? No problem, we’ll take care of that. Oh, you don’t like them? Okay, we’ll take care of that. You know, like, whatever issues you, the client, have, we just go handle that. You just keep working. And you, you know, you pay for that. And then there’s a third thing called the unicorn. I call it the unicorn, which is just somebody who would be perfect for you They’re not overseas.

They’re right here in North America. They work for themselves. They’re not going to charge what my firm charges and you got to go find them needle in a haystack. Yep. They’re sitting there and you know, Tulsa, Oklahoma, and they’d be perfect for you. And you got to go find them. Those are all the different things out there.

And I would say, you know, on the low end, on the overseas, you’re looking at 6 an hour. These are U.S. dollars. North America-based agencies, you could go maybe as low as $40 an hour, but probably all the way up to 60. I’ll just be super transparent, and let you know. We start at 55 an hour, to give you a sense of it.

We’re a minimum of 10 hours a week. Some people will have minimum hours per week, some people will have monthly packages. Again, you just look to see what works for you. So back to your question, you know, where do you start with delegating or how do you? Why even do it? Because you really can do it faster, better, cheaper yourself.

That’s just flat-out accurate. Okay, that’s accurate for everybody. But, the million-dollar question I think is, do you want to keep doing that? You know? Aren’t you tired of it? I mean, I was running an EA firm with no EA myself. So I was, you know, the tailor whose children have no clothes kind of thing. And I said to myself, if I have to send invoices myself one more time, I’m just going to puke, right?

I don’t like that two days of the month, I have to stop everything and go do invoicing. And I don’t want to vet and screen all the people and ask them the exact same questions I’ve been asking for two years and have them give me the exact same answers I’ve been listening to for the last two years. I’m over it.

There’s a better, bigger, higher, better use of me and of you, you, anybody who’s listening to the podcast. You are a unique resource and you’re a unique resource in your firm and that unique resource doesn’t necessarily need to be doing research updating your CRM or hosting on social media. I was like, Oh no, that may not be your passion.

It may not be your strength. As business owners, we know we’re forced to do things that suck that we don’t like. Probably we’re not that good at it. So it takes us longer to do it. And so when you can finally bring somebody on to help alleviate and do those tasks, then you can actually move the needle in sales with clients, being creative, all those things where you excel and actually can help to grow and expand.

Your business. Exactly. That’s exactly what you’re buying. You’re buying yourself that opportunity to go do that. Now you are going to invest time with an assistant. So in the beginning, life will not immediately get easier. Life will get a little bit harder, but you’re investing in who you’re going to get to be three weeks from now, three months from now, three years from now.

Yeah. You are going to explain. I need you to go and pick up the thing. And bring the thing back. And then you are going to have to ask yourself, God, what do I want? Do I have a process? I mean, that is who we have to be as the boss, as the business owner is going to have to transform. We grow up along the way.

We have to grow up along the way to then empower these people who want to support us. Because they are saying, well, how did you know to do that? I just know I feel the pain of that. I remember that. It’s such a great problem though, that you, me, we all have to solve. Okay. Where are they going to go? Where is that file?

Is it in Dropbox? Is it in Google Drive? Oh, you tell them to go to that folder in Dropbox, but you know yourself that file and drop by that folder in Dropbox is a freaking mess. Okay. Well, you might have to go clean that up. It forced me to have to invest in making those checklists and making things a little bit cleaner or saying to the VA or the EA, listen, I don’t have a process for this.

I need you. To mine. Am INE? I need you to mine this outta my brain. Okay? So next Friday I’m gonna tell you everything I know about this. It doesn’t exist anymore. I need you to put it in a sauna. I need you to put it in a Trello. I need you to put it into the system. You could be training somebody and they could be creating the systems alongside you.

And a great EA loves building systems, by the way. They love that stuff. So you’re investing this week. Let’s say you get an assistant today or next week. Those first couple weeks you should plan on investing time with them because, in a couple of months, They’re not going to have those same questions that they had in those first couple weeks, right?

All I have to say to my EA now is I fly get on an airplane I fly to see my mom once a month all I got to say to Corrine who’s my EA I want to fly to see my mom. I want to leave on August 22nd. I want to return on August 27th at The end. But that’s the end because she knows everything now. She didn’t know it. Oh my gosh, it’s like a movie.

I’m picturing some high-powered businessman in a suit in a 1980s movie telling his secretary and she just makes it happen, right? It is. And it’s because, in the beginning, I had to say, here’s my known traveler ID number. Here’s my Alaska airline number. I prefer this. I like to fly in the morning. I like to fly this class, but if not this, then I like that.

And if you could, she knows all this stuff. It’s all second nature to her now. But that’s because I invested. Yes, when we started, I could book an airline ticket faster than her. But now, like, you couldn’t pay me enough money to book my own travel. It just nauseates me. Because I’ll fart around and waste time.

Right? I’ll be like, Oh, what if I flew out on Wednesday? Maybe it would be different. What if I threw it out in the evening? Maybe, maybe I should use points. Maybe it’s points and money I should use. God, Gina, stop it. Totally, we can all relate. Everyone listening right now, all those moms who are driving in the car are like, oh god, all the hours we’ve wasted with the mental calculations of what day and what time and when.

Oh, there’s a deal. Oh, did I miss that seat sale? Like, OMG, yes. You preach into the choir. Exactly. You know, and it’s true whether you delegate a travel trip, or research for the family for spring break. Oh, you could use an hour on Airbnb, right? Just shopping places. So there’s a lot in the personal world that there is to give away that frees people up.

But it’s also, you know, your invoicing process, you’re getting prepared to meet with a prospective client. You do the same thing. Every time you go to prepare for a prospective client, there are probably some things that are repeatable. And then what you said at the beginning is so brilliant. There’s just stuff you hate.

That just makes you go home at the end of the day cranky because you just did stuff you hated. It’s not even like, yeah, I should do that, but I don’t want to. Okay. Delegate that too. And you know, your EA or your VA may not know how to do all of it. What if they did half of it? Sometimes I say to Cory, can you just get this thing started, because I don’t want to start the research on could my 87-year-old uncle gets a social security disability and if could he get more money rather than social security.

Oh, I mean, I want to support the guy. But I don’t want to do that work. You know what also just came to mind as you’re saying this, Gina, is the laundry list of things that we create personally and professionally that we know we have to do, but because we hate them or we don’t enjoy them, they get pushed to the back burner.

Like, I have a list on my phone of all the things that I need to, that I’m like, as you’re talking, I’m like, oh man, maybe I need to get myself an executive assistant. I have things that are for me personally that I need to get done that I can’t ask my admin to do who does my invoicing. Cause that’s just.

Not his role. And I’m like, okay, I need to arrange to have my car picked up so I can change off the winter tires because it’s not winter. It’s already summer. I need to coordinate the removal of the sisal from my front stairs. I need to plan this thing and order balloons for my nanny’s goodbye party. I need to book a hair appointment and I need to book an eye exam.

Those are things that I’m literally, I’m showing you guys my little notes app because they’ve been here for months. These are things that I’ve been needing. They take five minutes to do, but I hate doing that stuff. And so they’re still not done. That’s why my hair looks the way it does. Yeah. And that’s what takes up people’s weekends and evenings when they get to it.

So even if you didn’t get to it, when are you getting to it? That’s weekends and evenings. I got really sick of my Saturdays. I’m going to call it a Saturday. That’s like a whole other workday. I’m not working for my company, but I’m working for my household, my house, my investments, my everything else that is not that.

And I, Hate to say it, but you know, women in particular, right? We become the admin of the household. So then you leave your job and you go home and now you manage this other business called the people and the stuff and the circumstances within the household. And then I’m like, well, where’s your weekend?

So, yeah, I’m a big fan of delegating the personal stuff, and sometimes it can feel kind of fancy. Like, really? I’m going to have somebody book my hair appointment. I’m like, yeah. So, wait a second. We’re talking about the personal stuff. But am I right to assume that the executive assistant who is employed by your business, who does the business things, can also tack on these personal things?

So, guess what? This could actually be a business expense. Absolutely. If you’re listening, your ears should have just perked up there. Yeah. And if for some reason, you know, you want to keep the finances separate then you do, right? If you, maybe you have investors, or maybe there’s some reason that this pile of money shall not be spent on researching your finances.

Family spring break trip. Okay, good. Well, then ask for two invoices. You know, I want the business-related stuff here and I want the non-business-related stuff here and you can decide. But if you hold all the purse strings like I do, I am a fan of now who cared for me rejuvenated me and allowed me to keep being the CEO of this company.

Yeah, it’s like what is it called? Or like somebody, something Oh, my husband always says, he’s like, that’s just a shareholder’s benefit or something’s benefit. I’m like, Oh, that’s an interesting way of looking at it. I like that. That’s right. I like it.

So in this vein, can we talk a little bit more specifically about the types of tasks? We already talked about the personal ones. I think that’s pretty clear, but you mentioned systems. You mentioned the drive or Dropbox, Trello, or an Asana-like system and SOPs. Can we talk a little bit more specifically about What an executive assistant virtually could do for a designer or firm owner, I think we kind of have a lot of us have a traditional sense of who we need to hire.

We need to have an administrator in front of the house who can answer the phone, can send out invoices. Who can place all of the orders as a design firm, or do we need a junior designer, we need maybe a senior designer. Maybe we need someone to help with marketing. Where would an executive assistant fall into an interior design firm?

I think they’re gonna do a little bit of all that. Now you gotta imagine, unless you go find some firm that specializes in interior design, right? You’re getting an executive assistant that’s great at being an executive assistant, not a designer. So that means that they are able to manage inboxes and calendars and your CRM, probably your project management software, and a lot of updating, where are we at with this?

Where are we at with that? When is this going to get in? When is that going to get in? They’re a great coordinator of pieces articles and people. Which is really a great way to use them because you’ll know what to do. A lot of times people go to their inboxes. It’s almost like going to Facebook. It’s not always the highest and best use of you because now you’re lost in whatever just showed up.

So another great use of your EA is to make sure that what is showing up in your inbox is what needs you. Needs you and it needs you today. Not something that’s going to distract you. Sometimes EAs will set up a system where you, Rebecca, just go to the Rebecca Important folder. That’s it. Rebecca, don’t go to your inbox.

I’ve heard of this. Don’t go to your inbox because you’ll get lost. You’ll get distracted. Today, there are three important things to move forward, Rebecca, and they are in the Rebecca Important folder. So EAs can help keep everybody moving forward. And you know, especially if you’ve got multiple people in a conversation or in a piece of project management software, you’re going to know what to do next once A, B, and C have all responded.

But then we waste time going, well, we heard back from the Joneses. Well, we heard back from Mr. Jones. We haven’t heard back from Mrs. Jones, but then we heard back from, I would just say to my EA, tell me when all these jokers have responded. Then I’m going to weigh in. And by the way, if they haven’t, I need you to nudge them, right?

So they become a wrangler of people and schedules and to do so that then when you show up, open up your laptop, you go, Oh, okay, everybody’s weighed in. All right. Now I, the subject matter expert on design know what to do next. And then you get used for your highest and best use, which is not chasing people and things.

Okay. So they could manage your calendar, right? Schedule those discovery calls with potential clients. They could schedule the consultation. They could make sure you have a travel buffer built in so that you’re not over-scheduled, which has happened to me in the past. People just schedule themselves in my calendar.

I’m like, how am I supposed to physically get from that meeting? I can’t go over by 30 seconds because there’s no way I’m going to be able to start the next one. Right. But they can do all of that. Yeah, and there’s some things that are automated, right? You could have a calendar link. People can put themselves on your calendar.

But then, as you said, there are issues. So then you use your EA to do calendar proofing. So they’re actually looking at the calendar and going, Is this a week? Is this a day or a week that Rebecca would want to live? Or is she just going to, like, survive it? So, because there’s so much automation that is great, now your EA should rise up and use automation, but now they’re the wrangler of the automation, to your point, making sure that appointments are not too close together.

Well, that has to do with setting up your Calendly or setting up your electronic calendaring system well. And then what happens when life changes, right? You have an emergency in the family or something happens. then that calendar is suddenly inaccurate. Well, you have your EA deal with that. Ordering?

Absolutely. Invoicing? Yes. You know, anything that can, and I say it so kind of nonchalantly, like anything that can be done remotely, but really in this day and age, 95 percent of stuff can be done remotely. Yeah, absolutely. It’s so interesting to think of the things like, I don’t know, many people listening, you might be This might be the first time you’ve heard of this concept of somebody else being in your inbox.

As for me as an interior design firm owner, I often get emails every week, multiple emails about vendors wanting to connect, wanting to do a lunch and learn. Can you swing by our studio? Can you come to this event? And I literally leave those emails unread because I don’t have the time. They’re not a priority, but then sometimes I miss out.

I’m like, Oh man, that event was so cool. How come I didn’t get invited? And I see it on Instagram. And then turns out I was invited. I just never opened the email. Yep. I forward all those to somebody on my staff. She’s actually our ops manager. And I just say, tell me if I need to do something here. Tell me if I need to do something here.

I want somebody else, but I do want to make sure it got read. Like you said, I want somebody who I trust to tell me. Yep. Gina, I’m sending this one back to you. This one needs you. Okay. Thank you. So everybody listening now is sold and everyone’s going to come running for an EA. I certainly know I need one.

So that’s only the first step though. So you find someone, but then, okay, hiring for me has been a roller coaster. virtual and not virtual. And so it’s one thing to get someone on your team, but there’s a lot of ways that you can mess that up. Right? Like you said, take the time at the beginning. What other tips do you have?

What is it like once you’re somebody comes onto your team, how do you delegate? Like, how do you correct them? How do you, that has always been my struggle. I struggle with holding people accountable and I would let people stay on my team. Doing the same thing, getting the same results, even though I’d be frustrated, I would kind of mention it, but I didn’t have a system and I didn’t like giving negative constructive criticism.

So do you have any tips for how people can really like, once they bring your EAs on, how do they, Make it work? Assuming these are super professionals and they know their job, but at the same time there is a learning curve, right? That’s right. That’s right. There is a learning curve, so you’re gonna invest time and I would say that one of the biggest pitfalls is people’s reluctance to coach and correct.

We have such a fear of like, I can’t be negative, I don’t wanna micromanage, I don’t wanna throw them under the bus, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I would just set up that relationship from the very beginning and that’s part of the relationship. So you have a brand new relationship, which is cool. So you get to be a brand new way.

They don’t know you. They don’t know how you are as a boss. So you can be however you want to be. They have no idea. You can say, listen. Super excited to work with you, really appreciate the partnership that we’re going to build here and we do it in our own vetting and screening process. We make sure people are open to coaching and correction and we have steps in our vetting and screening process where they will get coached and they will get corrected.

So we can find out, are going to now be dramatic and offended. Or are they going to go, Oh my gosh, I really see that. Thank you so much. And then bam, that’s corrected next time. Like we’re professionals or are they going to go, Oh, I didn’t like how you said that to me. Okay. Well, no love is lost here, but this is how we operate around here.

We coach, we correct. We also have fun. We also love each other. We’re also really great with each other. We’ll also call you and make sure, you know when we hear your grandmother’s sick, we’ll follow up with you and be like, how’s your grandmother? I say that it’s not just to be funny. Two, because if you’re caring for the human being over there and you’re actually interested in that human being, you’ll have a lot more grace and bandwidth to do coaching and correction without them being offended because they know ultimately you’re for them.

And you’re for this partnership working out and this one thing they just did isn’t quite right. But to your point, if you let that ship get off course by five degrees and it left Seattle and it was headed to Tokyo, it’s going to end up in Singapore. But that’s because you, me, the bosses, didn’t go, you know what Angela, hold up, hold up.

I just got it. Just sec. I so appreciate you giving this a try, but we’re getting off course here, right? So let me put in the correction and if you do it from the early days It’s not gonna seem weird that three months later you now occur as rude because now you’ve decided man I got to put in this correction with Angela’s not getting anything, right?

Well, she’s getting right what she’s getting right, but you never told her in the first few weeks. Angela, listen, A, B, and C were great. We got to go to work on D and E. So on Friday, when we talk, remind me, I got to give you some coaching about how to do D and E. I love that because two weeks from now, you’re not going to have to coach on D and E.

She’ll have it right now. She’s going to mess up F and G. Maybe she might get it 80 percent right, right? So acknowledge what went right, coach, and correct what was off. Care about the human, talk about it again next week, and it’s never going to end. That’s the other thing. I think people think, God, well, why does it now?

Why can’t she read my mind? No, she now can read your mind about a hundred things. She couldn’t, but now you’re talking every month. I’m giving my EA brand new things, brand new things, brand new things, you know, along with some stuff that is lather, rinse, repeat. But some stuff is really new, but she knows she’s going to get coached and corrected, but she also knows it’s not personal.

I’m correcting the behavior and the performance. It’s not the person, the person’s fine. I like the person. I hired the person. I’m an idiot if I don’t like them. Why did I hire them? I like them. But this thing they did needs correcting. Not the person doesn’t need correcting the thing they did. And if you can keep those separate, those people can breathe because they won’t go home and be like, she is so mad at me.

She’s not mad at you. She’s got to correct a thing you did and you are not what you did. You’re a great human. I love that term coach and correct. I really do like that, Gina. It’s interesting to hear you say that. I have a previous client who was a design client of mine. Many of our listeners know Marilee.

She became my operations manager during the pandemic because she was retired and looking for something to do. And she was super amazing. She’s been on this podcast. She now is a sailing instructor living her best life in the Caribbean. Oh, I miss you, Merilee. Yeah. Bye. I remember being so frustrated with people working for me and, having meetings with her and I was like, Oh, Merrilee, like, why can’t they just get it like this and that?

And she said, Rebecca, you love coaching, right? I’m like, well, yeah, like I love, like I have courses and I coach interior designers and what they need to do. She said to me, you need to coach. Your employees, your staff, your freelancers, the way that think of it as coaching as opposed to being the boss and telling them what to do and holding them accountable.

Think of it as coaching. And I remember the first time she said that, and I thought, Oh, that’s weird to be completely frank. I was like, Oh, that is weird. Why didn’t I think of that? First of all, I love hearing you say that today because it’s reinforcing that. Reminding us that we are always going to be coaching and teaching the people who are helping us.

And that it, it unfortunately, or fortunately never will end. You’re always going to be correcting. And that is normal in part for the course. And I wish I’d had this conversation when I started my business. Cause I had no idea I would just get so frustrated. I’m like, why don’t they get it? And why can’t they just be an adult and go do their job and not bug me?

Now, part of that was that I was hiring interns, right? And part of it was that I wasn’t coaching. I wasn’t giving directions. I wasn’t giving feedback and correcting. So I love those terms. Yeah. Something else that makes a big difference in working with people is also, and people are afraid to do it.

They’re reticent to do it, to say to their assistant or their freelancer. Yeah. When will that be done? Totally. So I always have my eye on, when is this going to be accomplished. Well, I don’t know. I don’t know how long this project’s going to take, Gina. Okay, well, what’s the next milestone? Can you give me the next milestone?

Yeah, by Friday, I’m going to research A and B. Okay, good. Alright, and then on Monday, will you let me know what the next milestone is? So everybody’s always operating inside of some sort of timeline for accomplishment. Even if the accomplishment is a baby step, right? There are 50 steps to the project and it’s steps one and two will be done this week.

All right. Otherwise, we fall into this trap of they’re working on it. Yes, I’m working on it. So then we get bought off by activity versus accomplishment. I don’t really care about the activity. People go, well, then I called and then I was on hold, but then I went to this link and then I researched and then I, and I’m like, I do not care.

I like you. I do not care about all the activities you have to do. I just want to know when steps one and two are going to be complete. Oh, well, I think they’re not going to be complete till Tuesday. Great. Talk to you on Tuesday. I don’t know. You’ll take whatever actions you gotta take. Two actions, five actions, 20 actions.

I don’t know. I’m just curious and I keep my eye on the ball of accomplishment. What’s going to be accomplished and by when. And it does make people squirm a little because they’re now, it’s risky to say, I’m going to have accomplished X by Tuesday. And maybe they won’t make it. It’s okay. But it keeps them moving intentionally versus just working on something because people like to feel like they’re accomplishing things when they’re busy and they’re just busy.

They’re not necessarily accomplishing. The project. So that’s a tip that I would offer people and the other tip along those lines I’d offer people is when you give somebody a project, have them, let them know this is now yours is now no longer mine, Corinne, this is yours. Now I know you’ve never done this before.

So I’m not abdicating my responsibility. It’s now, I just wash my hands a bit. Well, I gave it to Corinne. I hope she figures it out. No, Corinne’s the owner. She’s my EA. She’s the owner. I now work for her. And I tell her that. I’m one of your greatest resources. Come to me. I’ll answer any questions you need.

I’ll do my best. But you gotta, you gotta take this ball all the way into the end zone. Like, this is your baby and you let me know what, where you get stuck along the way, where you need help, what you need from me. We can talk every other day, but you own this. I love that. Yeah. It’s really great. And as leaders, you know, we all kind of need to learn to follow sometimes and now you’re following.

Now they get really excited and empowered because it really is there. Mm hmm. And they get the win. All my mistakes are flooding my brain right now. As you’re talking, I’m like, yep, that’s why that went wrong. Yep. That, that, that went south with that person and that, oh man, no wonder that person left or no wonder I had to let them go.

I’m like, oh my God, Rebecca. Okay. Whoa. I have a question, but before we get there, I really loved it, I want to go back to what you said. And I’m looking at my paper cause I’m scribbling down as you’re talking because it’s so impactful. I want to speak to this thing that you just said about. How business owners, I’m getting tongue-tied here, how they have a hard time asking when something’s going to be done.

Because for designers listening right now, and if you’ve ever hired or worked with anyone, you probably have experienced this unless you’re just one of those badass business babes that you know, I am not. And so I’ve always struggled with that. Always, always, always. And I know that was one of my biggest mistakes in the beginning.

I never asked that question because I was afraid, like you said, afraid to ask that question because I felt like I was putting too much pressure on them. I loved this sentence. What’s the next milestone guys write that down. If you’re not driving, what’s the next milestone? I think you can apply that to so many aspects of your life.

I’m already thinking about how I can apply that with my husband, planning things in our family, but what’s the next milestone? Like. I’m not asking for that completion date. That might be overwhelming. What’s the next milestone? And I’m already thinking about a meeting that I had earlier this week with my marketing team.

I should have asked that question. And when the call was done, I thought to myself, I was like, Rebecca, you didn’t put a next step in place. You’re just like, okay, let’s do this thing. And then I was too afraid for some weirdo reason to actually say, what’s the next step? Who’s going to do what? Like, let’s make someone accountable.

And thank you for that verbiage because I think that makes it a little bit easier for us. Yeah. Good. And you could use your EA for it. If you have meetings, some people bring their EAs in the meetings, the EA is not the boss. But they’re just sort of the emcee of the party. They’re the facilitator and they can act a little more innocent than you can.

They can go, okay, so let me just take down all the next steps of Joe. What’s your next step? Oh, I love it. Oh, you don’t know. Okay. And then a lease. What, what did you say? You’re going to have that ordered by when? Oh, okay. Good. Great. I’ll make a note of that. And Frank, what’s your next step? Okay. Great. Right.

They can be the next step wrangler. I love bringing my EA into a meeting sometimes because they’re going to coordinate the next steps. I don’t want to now leave the meeting. I have to tell my EA all the next steps. Just bring them with you. They’re almost like a note taker and a brain for you. And then when they go back to their desk, you say to them, okay, will you make sure those three things I said I was going to do, will you get those in my calendar?

So you make sure that I do those three things I just said I do. Totally. It’s no different than bringing an assistant designer to a consultation. I advise designers all the time, to pay 20 bucks an hour for a junior designer to come with you. They’ll be so grateful for the experience. They take all the notes.

You pay them for what? Two and a half hours. You build it into your consultation fee. You can show up. You can be present at the meeting. You can give your advice. That’s it. They take notes and then after they can summarize it and maybe even ask you if they’re part of your organization. And it’s such a game-changer.

I went to a job site last week and I didn’t bring someone with me because for some reason there wasn’t somebody to come and the entire meeting I was like, Oh yeah, shoot. I got to write that down. So out of the habit, I love that. Especially if they’re virtual, they can be in our Zoom call. They can be in the Zoom meeting.

They can be in the team slack. They can be in all the things. Oh my gosh. I feel like I could talk to you for another hour. This has been so insightful and interesting. I just really love this conversation and maybe we will have you back in the future to talk about that next level because there are so many, you’re clearly such an expert when it comes to delegating, you know, coaching and correcting, and all of those aspects.

I felt was very challenging as a business owner, as a creative entrepreneur hiring, having no expertise in that area, having no training in that area, but wanting to grow. And if you’re listening today and you want to grow your business beyond you, then you need to bring people on and you need to learn the best way to, to have, to help them help you.

And that’s what you shared with us today, or we started to just crack open the jar with that. And so that’s been really amazing. What last nugget of wisdom do you have for us, for our listeners today, Gina? Well, while you’re growing and things are crazy, you might be like, well, am I ever going to have a life?

And when am I going to have a life? And when do I get my life back? And you know, the last thing I’d say is to schedule those things in your calendar and hold them as sacred. It’s a walk with a girlfriend. movie night with the family getting a massage, dinner dates, go book things that involve other people.

Sometimes they involve money and a specific time because then you’ll go do it. And then you will have a life versus, well, when I get to a certain level, then I’ll have my life back. No, just go get it now. I love that. Prioritizing self-care, prioritizing your life. And I really do believe that having at least someone working for you, whether it’s one person or a team, for me it’s actually made that easier.

Because in some ways, they can help hold you accountable. If I say, you know, don’t book any meetings on Tuesdays after two, they won’t do it, but I might if I’m in charge. That’s right. Oh my gosh. It’s been such a great conversation. Gina, can you let everybody know who’s listening and where they can find and follow you?

So we’re at Athena Executive Services. com and you can find us on Instagram and Facebook. If you’re looking to talk to me personally, you can find me on LinkedIn. Thank you so much for taking the time today, guys. Go check it out. All of the things and all the services they offer might seem a little daunting, but I can tell you that once you get the help you need in your business, life gets a whole lot easier.

I hope you enjoyed that episode. I loved that conversation. It’s something we have not spoken about enough on this podcast hiring. Getting assistance, strategically delegating, and outsourcing, so that you can essentially work yourself out of a job. It is something that I have actually, I wouldn’t say I’ve mastered it, but I think I’m killing it doing that.

It’s been an incredible journey for me and I’ve had a lot of misses and as you heard, I’ve made a lot of mistakes. So hopefully you guys can fast-track that by hiring someone who’s more experienced and who can really help you move the needle in your business. If you guys like this episode, please come on over to Instagram and let me know.

Share this with your audience. And please, please, please leave us a review on iTunes. It would mean so much to me so we can get more eyeballs on the podcast. Really. One of my goals this year is to grow the downloads in this podcast. I know we offer a ton of value, but not everybody knows we exist. So if you guys could do us a favor by sharing it with a friend, posting it on your socials, and leaving us a comment.

a review on iTunes. It would mean the world to me. Please go give Gina a follow. Go check out her company and I hope you find the help that you need in your business. See you soon.