You’re in for a treat with this episode. It’s Resilient by Design LIVE!
This episode is the panel discussion I hosted with three talented and experienced designers at Fall 2024 High Point Market, Renee Biery, Dina Holland, and Jamie Merida, all about the complexity of our business and its profitability.
We had an incredibly candid discussion about what works, and what doesn’t, tipping points in their business journeys along with lessons and insights about pricing and profitability in different interior design businesses. Each guest shared what is fundamental to their brands, billing essentials, and structures, and how they identify clients from right and wrong for their businesses.
Stay tuned as there are truly a few gasp-worthy moments before getting into some nitty-gritty thoughts about hiring. This episode is one for the books, so I recommend you grab a paper and a pen to take notes because you’ll end the episode with lots to think about depending on how you want to run your interior design business.
Episode Highlights
- Money Matters: Building Profit in Interior Design
A candid discussion with top designers—Renée Bierry, Dina Holland, and Jamie Merida—on strategies to improve profitability, including billing models, construction management, and product licensing. - Hard Lessons: When Projects Go Financially Sideways
Insights into navigating financial setbacks and the importance of building contingency budgets to safeguard your design business. - Breaking Down Revenue Streams
How expanding into retail, product licensing, and e-commerce can create multiple income streams, featuring Jamie Merida’s success story with Chelsea House. - Stop Leaving Money on the Table
Practical advice from Rebecca and the panel on why designers should stop splitting discounts with clients and how to confidently charge for their value. - From Contracts to Confidence
The panel dives into the importance of solid contracts, time tracking, and understanding the client-designer relationship to ensure profitability.
Episode Resources
Learn more about our fantastic panel guests:
- Renee Biery – Only Girl on the Jobsite Podcast
- Dina Holland – Honey and Fitz
- Jamie Merida – Jamie Merida Interiors
Read the Full Transcript ⬇️
00;00;56;05 – 00;01;19;11
Rebecca Hay
Hey hey hey, it’s Rebecca and you are listening to Resilient by Design. Today you are in for a treat. I am sharing with you the recording of my live panel talk this fall at High Point Market. It was hosted by Chelsea House in their beautiful showroom, where they served an incredible lunch, cocktails and even gave us some cute canvas tote bags.
00;01;19;18 – 00;01;47;16
Rebecca Hay
It was a sold out event and I interviewed three of the industry’s most profitable designers to talk about money, honey. So my three panelists or guests are Rene Berry, Diana Holland, and Jamie Merida. Rene is a luxury interior designer. She’s a podcast host and construction expert. She was educated at the New York School of Interior Design and employed by AD top 100 firms.
00;01;47;19 – 00;02;08;27
Rebecca Hay
She’s built an impressive resume. For the past three decades. She’s created a niche expertise in managing large scale constructions, from renovations to new belts. And what’s even more impressive is her passion to give back. She has a mission to instill confidence in designers through her course, the Interior Designers Guide to Construction Management. And she has an acclaimed podcast.
00;02;08;27 – 00;02;28;02
Rebecca Hay
She’s also been a guest here on my podcast. Her podcast is called Only Girl on the Job Site. As a noted industry leader, she’s been applauded by the likes of Washington Post and the Miami Herald and has shared her expertise on numerous industry podcasts. My next guest was Dina Holland, and Dina Holland is the founder and principal designer at Honey and Fitz.
00;02;28;03 – 00;03;01;17
Rebecca Hay
You may know her from her very popular Instagram channel, Honey and Fitz. She’s a Boston area interior designer. She’s been in business for ten years, and she is known for her signature bold and colorful approach creating family friendly environments. She has earned recognition as a Better Homes and gardens style maker. And when she’s not running her design firm, Dina can be found running between hockey ranks with her two sons, walking her French bulldog Reggie, and posting something snarky on her spoof Instagram account.
00;03;01;22 – 00;03;33;19
Rebecca Hay
Please hate these things. And then my last guest was Jamie Merida, who is a legend in the industry. He runs both a bricks and mortar design showroom, Bountiful Home, as well as his Mid-Atlantic design firm, Jamie Merida Interiors. The studio is known for its traditional modern classic esthetic, and Jamie has a respect for classic design, appreciation for modern materials and color palettes.
00;03;33;22 – 00;04;05;19
Rebecca Hay
And he has a named furniture collection for Chelsea House. All three of these designers show up and really lay it all down. You are going to love this conversation that I had at Chelsea House. Enjoy. All right, so today we are talking Money Matters here at Chelsea House. And I’m excited to dive into this topic because I know, you know, we all know that as an interior designer you can struggle trying to be profitable.
00;04;05;25 – 00;04;24;23
Rebecca Hay
It’s not easy. In our business. We have a very complex business model in this industry that I don’t think a lot of people realize going into it, and we don’t always give ourselves credit for the complexity of our business. It can be very hard to make money, and if you’re not careful, you can see money seeping away at the seams.
00;04;24;23 – 00;04;46;21
Rebecca Hay
And so today, I want to have a candid conversation with these incredible guests. I’m going to have them introduce themselves to you about what’s working in their business. Where have they maybe messed up a little bit? What is their business model and how are they finding ways to find profit? I my goal is that each one of you today walks away with at least one, two, hopefully three things that you can immediately implement inside your own design business today.
00;04;46;23 – 00;04;49;24
Rebecca Hay
So my very first guest is Dina Holland. Dina, can you introduce yourself?
00;04;49;25 – 00;05;16;08
Dina Holland
Yes. Hi, my name is Deena Holland. I am the principal designer at a company called honey and fits that started as a blog about 15 years ago. It’s also my 10th year in business, I know. I am based outside of the Boston area. I have a small team, studio space, and we service mostly residential clients, young families, second homes, turning into now forever homes, which we’ve been very grateful, have now turned into second homes.
00;05;16;08 – 00;05;37;05
Dina Holland
So we’ve got a lot of long standing clients. And, I would say my style is not that you ask, but my style. I would say my style is, you know, colorful, sort of new New England traditional kind of, you know, very Chelsea house, forms, but updated with colorful patterns and textures and.
00;05;37;07 – 00;06;08;16
Renee Biery
Hi, I’m Renee berry. I am the principal designer and owner of Divina Design. I am based in Wilmington, Delaware. I started in this business. My first job was in high school, so this is my 30th year in the business. I was fortunate to go to the New York School of Interior Design and started my career in Manhattan. I have done quite a bit in the industry, but now it’s solely luxury, high end residential and I have a podcast about construction management called Only Girl on the Job Site.
00;06;08;19 – 00;06;25;14
Renee Biery
That’s how I met Rebecca. That’s how we connected originally as far as my style home, based on where I live, it’s mostly traditional, but I would say it’s got a lot of transitional pieces in it, a little bit more of an up leveled traditional. My client base is is seeking that difference.
00;06;25;17 – 00;06;47;08
Jamie Merida
My name is Jamie Merida and I’m the principal and owner of Jamie Merritt Interiors in Bountiful Home. And we’re located on the eastern Shore of Maryland on the Chesapeake Bay. I’ve been doing this a long time. I’ve had a retail business as well as an interior design firm for over 25 years. I feel sort of like the Grand Paul here a little bit, but but, we have a I have five interior designers on staff, and we, we do a lot of things.
00;06;47;08 – 00;07;02;25
Jamie Merida
We also do kitchens and baths and we also do carpet, tile flooring. And so it’s it’s a maybe a bigger envelope. But I started out like you guys, you know, just me and people asking, asking me to do interior design. There’s a lot of ways to go to make money at this. And I think you find your way.
00;07;02;28 – 00;07;20;28
Jamie Merida
Our secret has always been to think about what other revenue streams we could do to keep money coming in, which I think is very important. And I agree with you a lot. This is about making money. I mean, it’s about making pretty things, but it’s also about making money. As much attention needs to be spent upon that as selecting gorgeous stuff.
00;07;21;00 – 00;07;25;11
Jamie Merida
And I also design product for Chelsea House, which is how I ended up here. So there you go.
00;07;25;13 – 00;07;46;23
Rebecca Hay
All right. This is perfect segue. And my first question is actually for you, Jamie, take us back to that moment when you first saw the potential of product licensing. What was the spark, that and insight that you made that this is the path I want to take. And then what was the tipping point or breakthrough that pushed you to commit to expanding your business in this way?
00;07;46;25 – 00;07;51;09
Rebecca Hay
I’m curious about the vision that you had and the factors that made it happen.
00;07;51;11 – 00;08;08;25
Jamie Merida
I think the creative part of what we do is obviously very important, but I also think, again, the business side is important to. So as our firm has gotten bigger and I tend to always look for, well, what can I do next? You know what’s going to be the next phase? You know, because I do tend to get bored with things over a period of time.
00;08;08;27 – 00;08;26;05
Jamie Merida
So, I would say I’ve been here with Chelsea House. Now about 6 to 7 years from when I did my first collection. For them, it was really sort of a cold call. I thought, oh, this is fun. I like to draw. I’ve got, you know, some antique background is what I did before. I, was a designer.
00;08;26;07 – 00;08;43;03
Jamie Merida
I reached out to my sales rep and said, you know, do you think they would be receptive? He said, sure. So I put together about 15, 20 designs and kind of sat down with the owner at the time, Bill Kane, who was running the company, and he was like, well, let’s give it a whirl. And, you know, that’s sort of how it happened.
00;08;43;03 – 00;08;58;16
Jamie Merida
So I think there’s nothing to stop people from doing that. But I think if you approach product design as a business person and not as somebody who just has pretty things, you will have a much better traction in somebody’s showroom or somebody’s business to get it done.
00;08;58;19 – 00;09;14;12
Rebecca Hay
That’s interesting. Raise your hand if you’ve ever considered the idea of having a licensing or having a product line, there’s a field. You can be bold, you can raise it up high. That’s okay. That’s quite a few of you. That’s awesome. Would you say that that has has added additional revenue to it.
00;09;14;17 – 00;09;38;13
Jamie Merida
Yeah. Yeah. You know I’m not going to retire off of it because it’s royalties. But it certainly does. It’s, you know, you every quarter you get a check and, you know, the more products you have, obviously the more you’re going to make. So and I think, you know, the more you approach it professionally, you know, with, you know, really good drawings and CAD and that kind of thing is going to make it easier for the company to say, oh yeah, I, you know, you know, now, no little sketches on a piece of paper.
00;09;38;13 – 00;09;42;05
Jamie Merida
And I think the more you come at it professionally, the more they’re gonna respond professional.
00;09;42;05 – 00;09;59;02
Rebecca Hay
I love that, you know, it’s interesting hearing you talk about a physical product line now makes me think of Dina and for those of you who’ve been following Dina on Instagram, you’ll know that, she has a or has had an audience with that. We’re going to talk about that, an e-commerce business that she has been running herself.
00;09;59;02 – 00;10;19;29
Rebecca Hay
So looking back on your decision to dive into e-commerce a few years ago, what would you say is the biggest lesson or unexpected insight that you’ve gained from it and has it been as as profitable as you envisioned, or did it evolve in a different way? And then, you know, for other interior designers who are considering this path, what could you share?
00;10;19;29 – 00;10;28;05
Rebecca Hay
That’s the moat, and you’re always honest, which I love. But what would be the most honest advice you would give to them about what it really takes to succeed in the e-commerce space?
00;10;28;07 – 00;10;41;28
Dina Holland
Probably six years ago, I looked at my Instagram following and I said, okay, some portion of these people are going to hire me, but a giant portion of them don’t even live in this area, would never hire me. How can I monetize these people? I thought, all right, well, everyone wants to look right. They want the look that I’m putting together.
00;10;41;28 – 00;10;56;16
Dina Holland
But they live in Tennessee and I live in Boston or whatever. Could I create a curated, highly curated, edited version of an online site that just had some of the pieces that I was using in my projects, or perhaps wasn’t using in my projects, but, you know, had the Dina stamp of approval of something that I would like.
00;10;56;19 – 00;11;15;21
Dina Holland
And that’s really how the idea began, super curated. I had the benefit of working with a wonderful woman who at the time she had just left, Rula La. If anybody remembers that company, and she came on board and she was pivotal in helping me understand everything from inventory management, pricing, the seasonality of things, all of that. So that was awesome.
00;11;15;26 – 00;11;32;17
Dina Holland
It accomplished the okay, now I can reach this larger audience with product. And then the pandemic happened and we all got locked in our houses, and I had the biggest month I’ve ever had on the online site. Everyone decided they hated all their lamps. That’s what happened. Like in April of 2021, I was like, I can’t live with this lamp ever again.
00;11;32;20 – 00;11;55;09
Dina Holland
And I sold more lamps than I ever thought I would sell in my life. Right? The following month, I had to return all of those sales because none of those lamps weren’t stock. Oh yeah. Exactly. So now I’m refunding all of it. So it was like the moment kind of oh, this is a whole other business. It’s not like you’re walking into a client’s home going, you know what would be great.
00;11;55;09 – 00;12;11;21
Dina Holland
There’s that lamp. It’s not that. And I would say I think a lot of designers have made a foray into retail sales. And I think we’re going to continue to see more and more of it. It’s a completely different business model. You have to hire and staff appropriately to that business model. And what I will say is we have since closed it down.
00;12;11;21 – 00;12;29;13
Dina Holland
I’ve shuttered it. Do not underestimate your role in selling that $5,000 chandelier. Just because a client is looking at that picture and going, oh my God, I would love that for my house. When push comes to shove, can they hit the Add to cart purchase button without you standing in their foyer to say that’s the right? Like like at the end of the day guys, it’s sales.
00;12;29;13 – 00;12;46;10
Dina Holland
You are there. You are selling. Don’t underestimate how important you are to getting that sale. Because even though I can show you what that light looks like in my client’s house, it’s really hard for Mary in Ohio to go. Is that the right light? So everyone says, I want access to the things that you sell. But really what they want is they want the tree.
00;12;46;10 – 00;13;03;00
Dina Holland
They want it. Exactly. They want they want to see you and they want the tree. Maybe the pillow, maybe an accessory. But I’m sorry. That pillows. How much? You know what I mean? Like that stuff. Really? You don’t realize when you’re selling it to your client? Yeah. So $300 pillow? Of course. Michelle, that’s the pillow you need when it’s online.
00;13;03;03 – 00;13;08;06
Dina Holland
I’m sorry. A $300 pillow. What? You. You know, it’s a really different. It’s a different model.
00;13;08;12 – 00;13;10;28
Rebecca Hay
So. So you’ve closed it down because it just wasn’t profitable.
00;13;11;00 – 00;13;29;02
Dina Holland
It was. I was spending too much time, you know, it’s like the time that I was spending again. Could I have staffed it differently? Could I have pushed more stuff? I could have, but at the time I was so just grossed out by the inventory system and like just the challenges we were having with inventory, I can make more money standing in someone’s four year Senate selling that $10,000.
00;13;29;02 – 00;13;31;11
Dina Holland
Like, you know, that’s that’s what it comes down to.
00;13;31;13 – 00;13;46;12
Rebecca Hay
Yeah, I think it’s interesting. I think, you know, at this day and age, it’s so digital as we know that. I hear a lot of designers say and a lot of entrepreneurs, in fact, say, I just want to have a passive revenue stream. And by saying passive, there’s this connotation that, like, I don’t have to do anything.
00;13;46;12 – 00;13;49;14
Dina Holland
I’m on the beach, I’m on the beach, make a cocktail kitchen.
00;13;49;16 – 00;13;50;29
Rebecca Hay
I just like lifestyle.
00;13;51;04 – 00;14;11;08
Rebecca Hay
I like even creating a course. I have people say, oh, I, you know, Rebecca, I want to create a course like, oh my God, it’s a lot of work. Like, yeah, it is. It’s a whole business. And so what the lesson that I’m hearing is being intentional about where you’re spending your time. Unless you are planning to scale and you get maybe you get funding to grow and expand, and that’s a whole other business.
00;14;11;10 – 00;14;30;11
Dina Holland
It’s a whole other business. That’s exactly what it is. Just the whole of the business. And be really honest with yourself about what are the things, what is what is so fundamental to your brand. Like my design starts so much from textiles. Am I am I now selling shoemaker fabric by the art? No. If your design is very focused around lighting and accessories, that might be different.
00;14;30;11 – 00;14;39;13
Dina Holland
You might be able to sell those product lines. But if the crux of your design comes from textiles or, you know, custom things, you can’t you can’t get that look to someone.
00;14;39;15 – 00;15;03;01
Rebecca Hay
Yeah. Renee, for those who don’t know, you should know. Rene is very well known for turning construction management into a powerful revenue stream. She is, she manages trades like no other. Can you walk us through the key strategies that you use to build for construction in a way that protects your profitability? I know a lot of designers, including myself over the years, struggle with managing job sites, construction, renovation.
00;15;03;01 – 00;15;16;11
Rebecca Hay
Our clients come to us and they say, oh, can you just do this? Or, you know, they want us to do it all. And some of us like it and some of us do it but don’t love it. I get a lot of designers saying to me, oh, I don’t really want to have to to implement that design.
00;15;16;11 – 00;15;31;02
Rebecca Hay
Like I want to, but I don’t want to be the one managing and dealing with it, and it’s not profitable. So I’d love to hear your take on what are the essential practices for billing that makes your construction projects or your renovation remodel projects profitable?
00;15;31;08 – 00;15;51;01
Renee Biery
So to your point, there are some designers who get pulled on. I hear those things. So I got pulled on my client, talked me into it, and if they don’t enjoy it, here’s a simple answer don’t do it. If you’re not comfortable doing something, then unless you want to learn it, then you you say, no, thank you. It’s out of my wheelhouse.
00;15;51;01 – 00;16;14;24
Renee Biery
Whatever you, you know are comfortable saying the designers that I speak with like doing it, they’re just finding to your point that they’re not making it profitable. And it’s a different business model to your point that it is a separate business, but it’s similar products. And the key to the profitability is billing your fees appropriately. And that’s where designers struggle.
00;16;14;24 – 00;16;36;28
Renee Biery
It is not the same as sourcing fabrics and furniture and lamps. It is hands on, day in and day out, sometimes some weeks. So billing your fees correctly, whether that’s, you know, if you’re billing hourly then you’re estimating the number of hours. So that your client has an idea of what they’re going, you know, their total spend will be or whether it’s a flat fee up front.
00;16;37;00 – 00;16;56;17
Renee Biery
What I find or designers, you know, I designer reach out to me. She’s like, so I estimated 50 hours. I’m currently at 90. And I’m like, oh, and she was a flat fee. So she had eaten 40 hours. And so, you know, to Jamie’s point like that, that takes it from a business to a hobby. And we’ve got other fun things to do.
00;16;56;19 – 00;17;16;07
Renee Biery
Right? I mean, that is yeah, it’s not a hobby material in my mind. And I love being on job sites. So you really do need to, to understand your fees. And while I’m always in all in on a shortcut, it is very hard to find a shortcut for construction because there’s so many variables that change job by job.
00;17;16;14 – 00;17;41;16
Renee Biery
Whether that’s the scope of work has changed, whether it’s the team you’re going to be working with is changed. Obviously, the clients change their neediness, let’s be honest, changes their interest in the project changes. And so I find that designers want to make it formulaic. And on the first in. But it really has to be something that you must invest the time, your time to building your prices.
00;17;41;20 – 00;18;05;09
Renee Biery
And once you do, you absolutely can make it an extremely profitable business for two reasons one money. Two. You are a one stop shop so my clients don’t have to call anyone one year and I work the same clients for a decade or more when you’re might be doing the living room and we’re spending time in the Chelsea house pulling out, you know, all the accessories we need.
00;18;05;09 – 00;18;23;04
Renee Biery
The next year we’re going to demo that kitchen. You know, Renee, I’ve been complaining about it for years. The next year we’re going to do whatever the beach house, and then the next year we’re going to put that addition on. And I know this because the husbands will say, yeah, we’re doing them faster because we already have you in hand and they’re not happy about it, mind you.
00;18;23;06 – 00;18;43;13
Renee Biery
But that know, like and trust, which is what Dina was referring to that’s baked in. And I’ll be honest, the jobs get easier and easier because I already know my client. I’m already specifying. I just found a table yesterday for a project that the architect. Actually our kickoff meeting is on Thursday. Right. And so we’re talking a year and a half out.
00;18;43;13 – 00;19;02;19
Renee Biery
And I’m going to figure out where the hell to put that thing. But I sent a picture of it to her yesterday. And I’m like, thinking of you. And she’s like, oh my god. Yeah. That’s right. And so the profitability saw you’re no like and trust are there. The other which I know designers get very anxious about is the procurements.
00;19;02;21 – 00;19;24;29
Renee Biery
Designers must do procurement on construction projects. It is really that simple and it scares designers. But I’m not quite sure why. It is the same as purchasing a sofa. You’re just purchasing tiles. You’re receiver that receives a sofa will receive tiles. You’re no more liable for those tiles than you are for the sofa. It really does come down to being that simple.
00;19;25;01 – 00;19;45;07
Renee Biery
And while we own all of the furnishings, you don’t own all of the procurements on a construction project. But to say then, okay, I’ll do none is really giving up money. A little trick is if you’re new at this and you’re underestimating your hours, your procurement and income makes up the difference. So hopefully you’re just breaking even.
00;19;45;11 – 00;20;08;05
Rebecca Hay
And also just don’t share your discounts. Never don’t share your discounts early enough. Don’t share your discounts with your clients. Thank you, thank you. They don’t need them. And if that’s the reason they’re hiring you, is it the right client? No. It is so challenging to be profitable in this business. And I can just say from my own experience, and I got a bunch of my students here, they’ve heard this a million times.
00;20;08;08 – 00;20;25;19
Rebecca Hay
I had an operations manager join my team for years, and she was older and more experienced and very opinionated. And she said, Rebecca, what are you doing? You are leaving so much money on the table. Why? I was splitting my discount. So I was like, well, it seems fair. You know, I’m charging more in design fees and made me feel better.
00;20;25;19 – 00;20;42;26
Rebecca Hay
I was moved to a flat fee and I’m like, you know, I’m just splitting a 5050. Seems fair, this little perk, she said, no, she said, I worked for an architectural firm. They didn’t do that. Stop doing that. And you know what happened? I stopped and guess what? Not one client even asked me about the discount. So please stop.
00;20;42;29 – 00;20;55;22
Rebecca Hay
Jamie, as Rene was talking, you were like, having all like, I need to share. Yeah, I want to hear about this from you because you do large scale projects. And how do you build for your time? Where do you make your money?
00;20;55;25 – 00;21;10;26
Jamie Merida
I don’t think we’re swift enough organized enough to ever do an hourly billing. Never have. We do buy the project, and it’s sort of maybe, I hate to say, this sort of amorphous. I mean, you know, I sit down with whoever the designer is going to be the lead on the project and sort of say, what do you think you’ve been out there?
00;21;10;26 – 00;21;30;04
Jamie Merida
Is it going to take us, you know, is it four rooms, is it three rooms? Where do you think we should be? And usually will? But I’ll be like, okay, you throw out a number out there and usually we’re pretty close. And for me, because I have a retail store and I mean, it’s it’s easier for me with cash flow and with because my margins are done differently, I think, than a lot of people.
00;21;30;04 – 00;21;49;17
Jamie Merida
We sell from our retail price less a discount, not from cost. Plus it’s pretty close, you know, when you do that. But I do think it it’s in my favor when I do it the other way. And when our clients come to us, it makes sense because they walk in my showroom and see this and they don’t expect to buy that for cost.
00;21;49;17 – 00;22;09;24
Jamie Merida
They’re going to buy that for the price. That’s on it. Less a design discount. So that’s been a way for us sometimes on the design for yes, sometimes you screw up and you think, well, I’m not making what I should, but hopefully I’ve sold them enough tile that it covers it. Yeah. I’ve never if I get a discount on thought, why would I ever give that not I mean, that’s how I make my living.
00;22;09;27 – 00;22;10;27
Jamie Merida
That’s like, yeah.
00;22;10;29 – 00;22;25;09
Dina Holland
Your clients should want you to make money. Yeah. Like if you have a client that’s pushing and wants the discount, like, that’s not a good client for you because a client that wants you to be successful, they want you to be around in two years. If something goes wrong with whatever you sold them, they want to be able to call you, right?
00;22;25;11 – 00;22;38;27
Dina Holland
So if you’re getting that pushback from the beginning, that’s that’s not a good client. It’s not a good sign. It’s not it’s going to continue throughout the project. I think if you present yourself as a business person, people understand. Hi, I’m here to bring you beautiful things. I’m also here to this is wrong. This is a job.
00;22;39;03 – 00;22;39;27
Jamie Merida
When you’re new.
00;22;39;28 – 00;22;42;14
Renee Biery
And also it’s in your contract.
00;22;42;17 – 00;22;44;02
Jamie Merida
Oh, well, that’s another story.
00;22;44;06 – 00;23;05;13
Renee Biery
Let’s be clear on that. It’s in your contract how you’re pricing. So if they’re not comfortable with that then you don’t move forward. And I know that can be really, really heartbreaking sometimes because we’ve all been there. We’ve all said yes when we probably should have said no. At least I have. I shouldn’t speak for others, but honestly, it’s in your contract.
00;23;05;16 – 00;23;19;18
Renee Biery
You know, I always equate it like, you know, when I go to J.Crew and buy a t shirt, I don’t go up to the woman and say, how much did you guys pay for this? Can I split the difference? Like, I mean, it’s absurd, right? We’re laughing, but for some reason it’s okay in our business. Like that’s absurd.
00;23;19;21 – 00;23;31;04
Renee Biery
But we in our heads we are. I am I won’t want to speak for the honest people pleasers like, oh, okay, maybe I should. Yeah. Because I’m like, with Rebecca, in the beginning, I split my discount and then I was like, wait, what the hell am I doing?
00;23;31;04 – 00;23;32;08
Rebecca Hay
You know?
00;23;32;10 – 00;23;33;25
Renee Biery
Yeah, I’m in business.
00;23;33;26 – 00;23;49;20
Rebecca Hay
Yeah. We had a student inside our community who was like, oh, this is an interesting idea. I’m going to look back on the year past and see how much money I left on the table, because she was passing on all her discounts and she was new, I think first year in business. And she’s like, I just had to do the calculation.
00;23;49;20 – 00;24;11;17
Rebecca Hay
I’m like, why would you do that to yourself? But it was wonderful. And she did the calculation and she said, I realized that I gave away $30,000 in margin to my clients. And I said to her, imagine what you could have done with $30,000 in your business. You could have hired a junior designer, you could have outsourced social media.
00;24;11;17 – 00;24;13;22
Rebecca Hay
You could have paid yourself more, could.
00;24;13;22 – 00;24;14;27
Dina Holland
Have paid taxes.
00;24;14;29 – 00;24;18;29
Rebecca Hay
Oh, okay, we’re going to go there.
00;24;19;01 – 00;24;20;24
Jamie Merida
We’re gonna go there.
00;24;20;26 – 00;24;22;14
Rebecca Hay
Okay. So did up my love.
00;24;22;14 – 00;24;23;29
Renee Biery
Delaware does not have sales tax.
00;24;23;29 – 00;24;26;09
Jamie Merida
So it’s easy for her. Let’s just have a short.
00;24;26;09 – 00;24;46;06
Rebecca Hay
Moment to talk about this because no one talks about this. And I’m going to have you talk about this. But paying taxes when you go to start your own business, especially if you’re coming at it as a second or third career, which is most of us, we’re used to maybe getting, being on payroll. Right? The government takes the portion that’s theirs, and then come tax time, whatever you maybe oh, maybe they owe you.
00;24;46;09 – 00;25;07;17
Rebecca Hay
Then you go to start your little business and you’re collecting all the money. This is great. This is great. And then come tax time it’s like, oh shit, where am I going to get that money? And I know from my experience I got into a robbing Peter to pay Paul. Well, I’ll just get another project and then that 10,000, I’ll use that to pay the government dinar.
00;25;07;20 – 00;25;08;19
Dina Holland
About tax evasion. When I.
00;25;08;19 – 00;25;11;23
Rebecca Hay
Talk about.
00;25;11;26 – 00;25;18;22
Rebecca Hay
Okay. Hold on. We’re not telling anyone. No, we are not here to tell you not to pay taxes. Please pay taxes. But I.
00;25;18;22 – 00;25;31;07
Rebecca Hay
Know that you have some thoughts on. And I’m putting you on the spot here about, you know, when you do run a business, there are ways that you can you can pay less tax. And that’s part of the perk of going into business for yourself. Right?
00;25;31;09 – 00;25;31;27
Rebecca Hay
Right.
00;25;32;00 – 00;25;42;07
Rebecca Hay
Was there anything that you learned? What are some of the areas where you find has been a real perk for you and a benefit, and that maybe you didn’t know before was something that helps you to pay less tax?
00;25;42;09 – 00;26;00;12
Dina Holland
I don’t even know if I’m necessarily paying less tax. I mean, I’m paying, you know, payroll tax, quarterly tax, income tax. What? I’m paying all the taxes. Right? I don’t necessarily know if I found a way to pay less tax, but there are advantages to having your own business. And you just need to be smart about what you’re running through your business.
00;26;00;12 – 00;26;18;16
Dina Holland
All of your purchases you’re making for clients should be going on credit cards. I haven’t paid for a vacation, and you know what I mean. Like in eight years, I like points. So I do think that there are things like that, that you can be smart about. There are slightly less tangible benefits that you can have and feel in your day to day life as a result of having the business.
00;26;18;18 – 00;26;32;25
Dina Holland
Taxes are a real thing, and I think the new designers starting out don’t recognize, oh, I’ll just split my discount or oh, I’ll just charge this work the math all the way back because you’re going to be working for less than minimum wage work the math all the way back. It’s like you don’t have you don’t have a job.
00;26;32;25 – 00;26;39;21
Dina Holland
You have a hobby. Now. And now you’re paying a babysitter to watch your kids while you go out and make $7 an hour after taxes. So work the math all the way back to that, right?
00;26;39;24 – 00;26;59;07
Renee Biery
Yeah. So I don’t have sales tax in Delaware, but Wilmington, just geographically is about five miles from Pennsylvania. So a lot of my clients are in PA and they do have sales tax. And they think hiring me, you know, gets them out of it. So it’s interesting how much I had to learn about sales tax. It’s point of Final Destination people.
00;26;59;09 – 00;27;21;27
Renee Biery
So they’re like, well Renee, I will just deliver it to you. And I’m like, yeah, no, no, no. And trust me, as we know it can add up the sales tax. The other is when you take a job at a state, right. My clients have houses in Florida. I need to register for sales tax in Florida. And then I need, you know, someone to file those zeros for those six months.
00;27;21;27 – 00;27;30;08
Renee Biery
I don’t have a client. And, you know, it is it’s complex and annoying as hell. You need a good accountant. Frankly, that should be.
00;27;30;08 – 00;27;30;24
Dina Holland
Your first item.
00;27;30;25 – 00;27;33;23
Renee Biery
That should be your first hire. I know that in a bookkeeper, like.
00;27;33;24 – 00;27;34;07
Dina Holland
You’re.
00;27;34;10 – 00;27;45;28
Renee Biery
Looking for, but you really do need to keep track of all of those sales taxes, even though I personally don’t have any. And also, by the way, labor gets taxed often at a different rate than a product.
00;27;45;28 – 00;27;47;23
Jamie Merida
So labor is not taxed right.
00;27;47;23 – 00;28;02;11
Renee Biery
So new designers, yes, it’s very complicated. But once you look at the states you want to work in, then you at least know the parameters. Okay. So if Mrs. Jones calls me and she’s from Maryland, I know I have to be responsible for X, Y, and Z.
00;28;02;15 – 00;28;17;25
Jamie Merida
And I mean, I’m the reverse for you because I have a lot of people with them in Delaware, and they’re like, well, I don’t need to pay taxes. And you’re like, you’re right, you know? But then it’s all the bookkeeping that goes with, I mean, there’s a lot of just business that goes with this. And we keep saying it’s not just pretty, it’s all about the business.
00;28;17;27 – 00;28;34;21
Jamie Merida
And the same thing. I mean, I think I have sales tax licenses. I can’t tell you how many states we have them in, and you have to fill them all out every year so that when it comes to the bookkeeping and stuff, you just be above board. Don’t try to like, schmooze, you know, slide things around. It’s just going to come back and bite you.
00;28;34;23 – 00;28;52;15
Jamie Merida
Yeah, I mean, the great bookkeepers key and that you trust because there plenty of us in this business. And I know plenty of them who’ve been taken for a ride by somebody and they don’t even realize their money has been, you know, siphoned off somewhere. Credit cards. I don’t know if there’s a small designer. You take them.
00;28;52;22 – 00;29;09;11
Jamie Merida
A lot of people grumble that you have to pay the big fees, but at the same time, is it more important to get the money in your bank immediately, then wait for a check or, you know, hassle somebody for a check? The other thing we’ve been doing a lot lately is I have people have all started wiring money to us, which is fantastic.
00;29;09;12 – 00;29;19;17
Jamie Merida
I mean, and if you pay a $15 service charge, it’s a heck of a lot better than a credit card fee. So yeah, are waiting a month or chasing them down and saying where’s the check? And yeah, so you get it, the better.
00;29;19;18 – 00;29;23;16
Renee Biery
So no, it’s incredible. They can send it out and you get a beep on your phone.
00;29;23;16 – 00;29;27;24
Rebecca Hay
You’re like, oh, Venmo just paid.
00;29;27;27 – 00;29;45;23
Rebecca Hay
So I like to talk about billing structure. I think everyone’s always curious like how do you charge for your services? Maybe, you know, we could start with you, but how do you charge for your services? Hourly fixed fee. And what is your profit model? I’ll give you an example for me. We bill fixed fee. We break it into three phases.
00;29;45;23 – 00;29;59;27
Rebecca Hay
We have our initial phase and then we have our design phase which is its own fee. And then we have implementation phase which is its own fee. Each fee is fixed but calculated differently. How do you bill your clients?
00;30;00;00 – 00;30;17;15
Dina Holland
I still bill hourly. I do not offer flat fee models to anyone as a first time engagement. I don’t know how much of a pain in the ass you’re going to be. I just don’t I don’t know how involved you’re going to be. I don’t know, I just don’t know. So why not? For the first, first project, I’m going to give you an estimate.
00;30;17;15 – 00;30;31;05
Dina Holland
I’m going to tell you, you know, it’s going to be about this much design time, this much project management time. I build those two functions differently. I built design at a higher rate than I build project management, procurement, and even lower rate. But I lay it out, you know, it’s going to be this many hours of design time.
00;30;31;08 – 00;30;49;19
Dina Holland
And I give a range, a low end and a high end range based on the scope that has been presented. Design time, project management time, procurement time. Everyone in the office tracks their time to 15 minute increments, and they get billed monthly for the time. And I take the retainer upfront and I when the retainer dips below whatever the percentages, I’ve decided they get invoiced.
00;30;49;19 – 00;31;03;16
Dina Holland
So I’ve always got the retainer and I’m billing against the retainer. If we are now on a second engagement, say we’ve done your living room and dining room and now you’re like, okay, I want to do the bedroom upstairs. All right, then we can talk on a flat fee, situation, because it’s just like what you were describing, right?
00;31;03;20 – 00;31;15;11
Dina Holland
The longer you work with someone, you can look at something and be like, she’s got. She’ll love it. She’ll love it. I don’t even need but the first time around. Okay. How many mirrors am I going to have to show her before she, you know what I mean? It’s all that, and you just don’t know what you don’t know.
00;31;15;11 – 00;31;20;02
Dina Holland
It’s to. I’ve done it and I’ve lost my shirt. And I was like, yeah, no, we’re not doing that ever again.
00;31;20;04 – 00;31;22;27
Rebecca Hay
But I think it’s important that you, bill like a lawyer.
00;31;22;28 – 00;31;23;27
Dina Holland
That’s exactly right.
00;31;23;27 – 00;31;31;17
Rebecca Hay
So you’re tracking every 15 minutes. That’s how many people here are tracking their time by the 15 minutes. That’s it’s not a lot of hands.
00;31;31;17 – 00;31;45;10
Dina Holland
It’s brutal. And everyone in the office hates it. And I’m like I don’t care. You’re got to bill it. Otherwise what are we doing? And and even when we’re billing on the flat fee, I still have them track it, because I want to know how close we came to that flat fee. There’s like, you don’t you can’t do it without the data.
00;31;45;15 – 00;31;50;24
Dina Holland
And unfortunately, the data is. How long did you spend looking for that fabric? You know, that’s the data that you need.
00;31;51;00 – 00;32;24;15
Rebecca Hay
And I would argue, actually, that I learned this the hard way, that tracking your time against a flat fee is actually even more important. Totally agree. Because there’s this false sense of like, I’ve been paid. I don’t need to think about it. And your team, everyone’s kind of like, Lucy, let’s go. Well, let’s go just back to it one more time or, you know, let’s, you know, we’ll sneak in this extra meeting or this extra revision, and I learned the hard way after moving to flat fee, because I thought that was the answer to all my problems, because I didn’t want to bill hourly that we were actually losing money the first few times we
00;32;24;15 – 00;32;26;08
Rebecca Hay
did it. It was a hard reality.
00;32;26;08 – 00;32;41;04
Dina Holland
And I also, every month at the end of the month, a report goes out that says, here’s how you’re tracking you. We estimated was going to be 20 hours to design a living room. You’re 18 hours in, so all my designers know where they’re at. It’s a pie chart. It comes out and they’re like, oh boy, I better, you know, I know I’ve got so many out.
00;32;41;04 – 00;33;01;10
Dina Holland
I mean, how do you know? I don’t want to just look internal internally. Excuse me? Yeah. Internally the clients don’t know. But although some clients do want to say. All right, you estimated that it was going to be 60,000. You’ve invoiced me three invoices. How close are we? Or. Hey, Ben, all those times we’re looking at that floor plan 2010 like these aren’t free thing that clients need to be held accountable in that sense.
00;33;01;10 – 00;33;08;12
Dina Holland
You know what I mean? Like they otherwise they will just keep sending those emails and keep asking you questions. And Jeremy, let’s hear what you have to say.
00;33;08;15 – 00;33;11;17
Rebecca Hay
What do you think. Yeah. So how do you how do you bill just don’t do that.
00;33;11;20 – 00;33;12;14
Rebecca Hay
They don’t you know, we.
00;33;12;14 – 00;33;30;20
Jamie Merida
Don’t we don’t we come up with a flat fee because I can’t tell how many clients I end up with who worked with someone who billed hourly and said, I just can’t do that again. You know, they just said, I can’t. I mean, you know, when I get the bill that says somebody went to the design center and spent seven hours looking at fabric, she was like, I was done, I’m finished.
00;33;30;23 – 00;33;42;17
Jamie Merida
And so for us, it’s been the flat fee structure has been the solution for us. Maybe I’m just kind of loosey goosey and maybe I’m just kind of chill, but I mean, you’re all going to follow the chair here, but,
00;33;42;20 – 00;33;45;12
Rebecca Hay
I can’t do, like, really look at this record.
00;33;45;14 – 00;33;52;26
Jamie Merida
I just don’t even. We’ve never had a design contract with anybody, and, oh, in like 20 days.
00;33;52;26 – 00;34;01;18
Rebecca Hay
At five years. Okay, I know, see, I knew this was going to happen. It always does make truly loves me. I want to be your client.
00;34;01;21 – 00;34;18;19
Jamie Merida
Yeah. That I’m. And you know, I tell my designers honestly. And maybe it’s because I know. But and it may be it may be economies of scale because I have a big retail space. So if Mrs. Jones really says, I hate that blue sofa, I’m like, Miss Jones. That’s all right. We’re going to put it on the floor.
00;34;18;20 – 00;34;43;29
Jamie Merida
We’re going to order you another stuff. I have the ability to do that, which a lot of people don’t, and I understand that. So I get why you have to have more guardrails. But I tell the designers and a lot of them work for me 15, 20 years. I mean, my theory has been if Mrs. Jones is unhappy, Mrs. Jones, tell me what I need to do to make you happy, which I’ve learned after doing contracts and being in courtrooms and stuff, that it was just a hell of a lot easier to say.
00;34;43;29 – 00;34;52;06
Jamie Merida
Mr. Jones, tell me what you need me to do and finish it. If you don’t like or don’t do any more work for her. And I know that sounds really awful, but it’s been successful for us.
00;34;52;08 – 00;35;01;00
Rebecca Hay
You obviously have built in trust also with the clients who are hiring you. If you feel you’re you’re selling to them off the retail floor. Yeah, that’s a big distinction, is having a bricks and mortar.
00;35;01;00 – 00;35;10;15
Jamie Merida
For sure they do because they can come in and they know that seven days a week they can walk in and somebody is going to be there. So it’s not like we’re going to disappear in the middle of the night. You know, we’ve been there 25 years and people know us.
00;35;10;17 – 00;35;22;18
Rebecca Hay
I mean, I have a son and I we don’t have to dive into this topic today. But I do wonder if there’s a difference being a male versus a female, maybe. Yeah, yeah, I just I think it’s really interesting and we’ll, we’ll do another.
00;35;22;18 – 00;35;41;11
Jamie Merida
Well, there’s also something I mean honestly it’s being an older male has made it easier than when I was 30 and doing chess when, you know, people are all looking at you like, you know, you may disappear tomorrow. So I think there’s that sort of maybe gravitas, I guess you get as you get older. But, and we’ve just been around a long time and, you know, your reputation is there, so.
00;35;41;15 – 00;35;47;00
Jamie Merida
Yeah. And we don’t do cost plus, like I said, we take retail less at 20 points, basically like a 20% discount off a retail.
00;35;47;00 – 00;35;56;23
Rebecca Hay
Right. But because you have the bricks and mortar you’re bringing in. So you’re actually still making margin on that product, right? Yeah. Right. Right, right. And then Rene, how do you charge. Because I’ve got another juicy question.
00;35;56;23 – 00;36;18;26
Renee Biery
So I do now both I have done both, I should say for my entire career I was hourly it’s just the women I worked for in New York were hourly. It was what I understood. It was what I could explain. It seemed logical. And about three years ago, and I still haven’t, I never heard the story. I was multitasking, listening to a podcast at my desk.
00;36;18;26 – 00;36;37;08
Renee Biery
And this woman’s like, if you don’t bill flat fee, you’re losing money. And I was like, how is that possible? I mean, I didn’t even look up. And she’s like, because you’re the better you are, the more efficient you are, and you’re billing hourly. So what may have taken me five hours five years ago is taking me 15 minutes.
00;36;37;10 – 00;36;57;11
Renee Biery
And I’ll be honest, I literally dropped my pen because I had just done it. I had a client who wanted a custom mural. She shot me a text. Within five minutes I reached out. I know that you know. I knew the size of the room. I texted my muralist. I said, what do you think about this? And within 15 minutes now, granted, he happened to just get my text.
00;36;57;11 – 00;37;16;06
Renee Biery
At that moment, I had the answer and an estimate and I thought, Holy God, I remember having to find him. Right. And then I had to, you know, interview him. I had to see his work. I had to do this. And I’m thinking, why is she paying less than Mrs. Jones paid when I first found this guy? And then I took a year.
00;37;16;08 – 00;37;17;00
Dina Holland
Deep dive.
00;37;17;00 – 00;37;31;17
Renee Biery
Because that’s who I am to look into it. And what really frustrated me is I couldn’t find two flat BS the same way. And I have design friends who opened their books. They told me exactly how they were doing and I’m like, well, crap, you’re doing it this way and you’re doing it that way. And and I thought, nope, I’m going back to hourly.
00;37;31;17 – 00;37;52;10
Renee Biery
So I flip flop for about a year. And I then went to the data, and I have an abundant amount of data in the back of my head. I’ve always thought about doing it for construction because you’re the only one doing hourly contractors don’t bill hourly architects most of the time. Now don’t build hourly. And so they’re like, well, Rene, what’s your cost per square foot?
00;37;52;10 – 00;38;14;27
Renee Biery
And I’m like, well, I don’t know. It depends on my hours a day, you know. And now I’m speaking their same language. So it does again kind of level that playing field of me being an equal on that team. But again, it goes back to knowing how to develop your fees. And then I present it differently, whether it’s a decorating project or construction project as far as when I build them the hours, but it is broken out.
00;38;14;27 – 00;38;34;06
Renee Biery
I don’t take, you know, everything upfront and I personally don’t take retainer. I just don’t feel like managing that. That’s the honest truth. But I also impede in advance of the work. Right. And so therefore I’m never going to be out. So if, God forbid, all hell breaks loose and we break terms, then I’ve been I’ve already been paid.
00;38;34;12 – 00;38;56;11
Rebecca Hay
Yeah, I love that. Okay, Dina, a question for you. What is one money management strategy or pricing tactic that transform the way you operate your business? Whether it’s about charging clients, managing cash flow, or setting up project budgets, what’s the single most impactful change that you’ve made that has boosted profitability and stability in your interior design firm?
00;38;56;15 – 00;39;12;00
Dina Holland
We took a really formulaic approach a couple of years ago to how to come up with the the our estimate. It’s easy when it’s just you by yourself and you’re going, all right, how long to take the delivery? I mean, you kind of just in your head come up with a number, but we really broke down. Okay. How long is gonna take us to do floor plans?
00;39;12;03 – 00;39;27;23
Dina Holland
How long is that floor plan meeting going to be? How long are we going to be onsite measuring? Are we going to be transcribed like into actual buckets? How long are we going to be sourcing? Is there accent furniture in the room? How long are we going to literally every single thing. And it’s by room. And it might be it’s going to take 2.5 hours for rug sourcing in that room.
00;39;27;23 – 00;39;42;26
Dina Holland
And the next room that’s, you know, the size on that floor plan looks like it’s going to be a standard size. It’s not going to take as long. It takes a lot of work upfront. But that formulaic approach let me feel good about that number at the end. It wasn’t just like a shot in the dark. It was like, all right, we’ve gone through every part of our process.
00;39;42;26 – 00;40;00;21
Dina Holland
We know all the different, you know, phases. We’re going to take this person through it. Let me feel good about the number. The other big thing that we did and still do, and I continue to find new ways of using it, is adding as many allowances as I can into the upfront proposal that I’m showing them. So I just had a conversation with someone about this.
00;40;00;24 – 00;40;11;23
Dina Holland
You know, things are going to go wrong in the project. Things are going to go wrong. And at the end of the project, when you just want it to be done and you want it to be perfect for Mrs. Jones, how many times you end up eating things that you know, why might why am I paying for this?
00;40;11;23 – 00;40;26;04
Dina Holland
I wasn’t there, I didn’t break the mirror, you hung the mirror. All I did was source the mirror. But you hung the mirror. But I want Mrs. Jones to be happy now. I’m buying Mrs. Jones a new mirror. Why? Why? But you know it’s going to go wrong. So we’ve started to take allowances upfront. It’s really easy, I think, to ask people for money upfront at the end.
00;40;26;04 – 00;40;36;17
Dina Holland
It’s not. They’re not so generous. They’re not feeling like giving you that thousand dollars for the extra mirror at the end. But if you say to them, hey, things are going to go wrong. This is human business. I’m going to take $1,000 from you upfront. If we don’t have using it, I’m going to give it back to you.
00;40;36;20 – 00;40;51;05
Dina Holland
But that thousand dollars is there in case the electrician drops one of the glass ball things from the chandelier. We need to get a replacement, or you can talk them through and help them understand. Oh, okay, that makes sense. Things are going to go wrong. Totally. Of course I should pay for it. Whereas at the end they’re standing there going, well, who pays for that?
00;40;51;05 – 00;40;55;19
Dina Holland
It’s like, well, oh, thanks for that. I’m not paying for that. You know, like that kind of thing. Allowances.
00;40;55;25 – 00;41;15;07
Rebecca Hay
Love it, love it, love it. Yeah. Renee, I would like to know because Dina just hit on a great topic. Can you share a moment when a project didn’t go as planned, or there was a financial hit to you in your business? Maybe a time you lost money when there was an unexpected setback on site or, something internally went wrong with the team?
00;41;15;09 – 00;41;21;17
Rebecca Hay
What have you experienced and then what have you implemented into your business to ensure that it doesn’t happen again?
00;41;21;20 – 00;41;24;13
Renee Biery
How long do we have?
00;41;24;15 – 00;41;26;22
Rebecca Hay
Three minutes.
00;41;26;24 – 00;41;45;18
Renee Biery
The reality to Dina’s point is not a single project runs the way you think it will. The more you get that ahead of time, the less you’ll beat yourself up along the way. When it comes, you’ll go, oh, there it is. Yes, I’ve been waiting for you. That’s a great thing. Last time it was in this phase. This.
00;41;45;18 – 00;41;46;27
Renee Biery
See it? Okay. It’s in this.
00;41;46;27 – 00;41;50;09
Dina Holland
Phase. Okay. This is the desk. But. That’s right. I’ve got it. Okay.
00;41;50;11 – 00;42;23;22
Renee Biery
There is always something. And again, to Dina’s point, we’re human. May not be our error. May be the contractors error. May be the client’s error might be the universe’s error. But there is always something that’s going to go wrong. And so me dialing in and what I have learned, I think I’m on year two, maybe officially about to be a year or two of a flat fee is I have my allowances baked into those numbers, so that’s the difference is I did used to panic like, oh shit, who’s going to have to pay for it?
00;42;23;22 – 00;42;48;24
Renee Biery
And to Dina’s point, I’m like, I fine, fine, just make it go away. Because to Jamie’s point, all my projects are client centric. First, 100% client centric. First, it’s all about them and their happiness and their goals and their dreams and their way of living and quality of life. And you need to get that right. And I don’t mean right, meaning you won’t get things wrong, but it is not my home.
00;42;49;00 – 00;42;59;17
Renee Biery
I am not moving in it. The contractor is not moving in. And if I do my job, I have elevated my client’s quality of life and that’s really powerful.
00;42;59;17 – 00;43;00;25
Rebecca Hay
That’s the fun part, right?
00;43;00;25 – 00;43;21;17
Renee Biery
Name another industry. I mean, maybe a massage therapist, but aside from that, like, who else is raising your clients quality of life? Right? Maybe they’re entertaining more because Deena has done a mac daddy living room they’re no longer embarrassed about, and they’re having people over. For me, if I’m doing a construction project and I’ve changed the flow, all of a sudden it makes more sense.
00;43;21;17 – 00;43;34;12
Renee Biery
They come barreling down this staircase because that’s human nature, right? It really is that important. And I think we get discounted for that. They think what we do is fun. It’s pretty. Oh, you play with color and fabric. Wow.
00;43;34;15 – 00;43;36;08
Rebecca Hay
But we do also get to do that.
00;43;36;11 – 00;43;39;01
Rebecca Hay
But we do. But see that’s the best part.
00;43;39;03 – 00;43;46;08
Renee Biery
I know it’s the bonus. So if you really dial in your numbers, it removes that stressor.
00;43;46;10 – 00;43;47;27
Rebecca Hay
Of you like.
00;43;48;00 – 00;43;49;22
Renee Biery
Like when electricians touching a chandelier.
00;43;49;22 – 00;43;51;04
Rebecca Hay
You’re like, oh God, oh God.
00;43;51;10 – 00;44;01;02
Renee Biery
You don’t have to anymore because you’re like, all right, look, something may go wrong and I’m covered because that’s what oh, everyone else does in all their other industries.
00;44;01;04 – 00;44;03;01
Jamie Merida
Yeah, every other industry does the same thing.
00;44;03;02 – 00;44;04;16
Renee Biery
Exactly. And we are no.
00;44;04;16 – 00;44;05;21
Jamie Merida
Different cost of doing business.
00;44;05;28 – 00;44;06;24
Renee Biery
Correct.
00;44;06;26 – 00;44;15;04
Rebecca Hay
But come on, give us an example. Jamie. You must have an example, a time, a moment in your business where you’re like, oh shit, we’re just we just lost ten grand. Okay, maybe.
00;44;15;04 – 00;44;25;11
Jamie Merida
Not bigger than that. Yeah. Tell us. I mean, you know, we do hospitality projects and you want to talk about where things go south fast. Now, I do have contracts for that. So, but, yes.
00;44;25;14 – 00;44;26;10
Renee Biery
They probably require.
00;44;26;10 – 00;44;27;04
Dina Holland
Yeah. Pretty much.
00;44;27;10 – 00;44;47;01
Jamie Merida
And, and you realize, so, you know, you tried, like you said, to cover your ass and you bill enough in design fees and stuff to cover, but, you know, you get problems, like you have a hotel that opens and suddenly, like, every valve in the bathroom is suddenly, like, failing. And, you know, you’re like, well, I didn’t put it in contract or put it in, but I’m responsible for the barrel because I sourced it.
00;44;47;01 – 00;45;01;13
Jamie Merida
So it’s one of those where you think, oh God. But then at the end of the day, you think you just got to get it done and you’re going to move on. You got money in there. The world will not end as we say it. Work. No sofas died today. When we go home and, you know, at the end of the day, yeah, we’re not curing cancer.
00;45;01;13 – 00;45;19;19
Jamie Merida
We’re like, making people’s lives better. I think you will find those times where you kick yourself because you think, you know. That little change I did to their house probably added $250,000 to the value of their home, and you’re never going to get paid for that. But hopefully they recognize the fact and tell all their friends and their friends come to you.
00;45;19;21 – 00;45;29;15
Jamie Merida
So yeah, I think you just kind of, to some extent, you roll with it and you just cover yourself enough with with billing. And we talked about design fees are a great place to, hide the things that might go south.
00;45;29;21 – 00;45;49;04
Rebecca Hay
So I really the takeaway is making sure you’re building in that buffer for yourself in whatever way, whether it’s like Dena and you have a separate allowance, or you’re making it into the items and you’re putting in that, that markup. Yeah. But, I know we do the same. We collect incidentals. Retainer, we call it at the very beginning of the project, based on scope or scale, it could be 5000, 10,000.
00;45;49;11 – 00;46;03;09
Rebecca Hay
And we hold that and we will bill against it for incidentals like delivery, shipping, something that gets broken and replaced so that at the end of the project, you’re not there begging your clients for money or just saying, I’ll just eat it. I don’t want to deal with the confrontation.
00;46;03;09 – 00;46;29;13
Renee Biery
And to that, if you want a really amazing tip, get to know and become friends with all of your reps because you’re sitting there. Okay, so let’s say that mirror falls off the wall and you got at a Chelsea house and you’re like, oh my God, I have to eat $1,000 mirror. Maybe. Maybe not. You call Chelsea House and you say, this is what happened to no fault of anyone, and maybe they’ve got one to Jamie’s point.
00;46;29;13 – 00;46;47;03
Renee Biery
Look, Renee, you’re a good client, I like you. We’ll give it to you for half or whatever, you know? Same with the plumbing supply house. I can’t tell you. Chelsea at Ferguson has gotten my ass out of a lot of minds. Right, because I’ve been working with her for ten years, and we’re friends. She’s an adorable new baby.
00;46;47;03 – 00;47;04;28
Renee Biery
I sent her a baby gift not to suck up, but because we’re friends, so I think we don’t give enough credit to our. To me, I consider them an extension of my office right there. My there’s someone there, my coworkers, in many ways, and therefore it’s not out of your own pocket.
00;47;04;28 – 00;47;23;07
Jamie Merida
And especially with like, soft goods with upholstery. I think I’ve learned over the years with our street suppliers, they are so easy when you call up and Mrs. Smith says, oh my God, these cushions are way too mushy. And even though she said on it in a shop and love them, what does it matter? Yeah, it’s an easy phone call to say, hey, you know, I’ve got this problem here.
00;47;23;07 – 00;47;39;24
Jamie Merida
I know I’m going to need to replace these cushions. Can we split the difference? Can we? And sometimes they’ll be like, we’ll send just three cushions. Just don’t worry about it. So yeah, never, never stop to develop those people. And like she said, I’ve been doing this a long time and I’ve had reps been the same rep for 25 years who will pull miracles for you?
00;47;39;27 – 00;47;41;14
Jamie Merida
Yeah, because they want to. They want us.
00;47;41;14 – 00;47;42;25
Rebecca Hay
To succeed just as well.
00;47;42;28 – 00;47;59;29
Rebecca Hay
It’s the relationships. Right. And that’s whether it’s your trades, your suppliers, your clients, your team members. It’s all about relationships and business. And it’s so true. And it can be hard. Do you come to a place like High Point because it’s like shiny penny syndrome. It’s like, oh, maybe I should start ordering from this place because that was really pretty.
00;48;00;03 – 00;48;18;16
Rebecca Hay
And I always say, these are just be careful you don’t diversify too much because if you’re just, you know, you buy one thing from Chelsea house and then you go over to another supplier and you buy like two things. One time they don’t have your back the same way. You’re just a retail customer to them. And even it could be just local in your town or city too, right?
00;48;18;16 – 00;48;35;04
Rebecca Hay
Even your local suppliers that you order from go back to those same suppliers, see if they can bring in another line that you want. They will have your back because you are their repeat customer. Okay, this has been so amazing, but I do want to open it up to questions. So raise your hand and we’ll do our best to get through all the questions.
00;48;35;11 – 00;48;41;08
Rebecca Hay
So I think the question is, how do you calculate your design fee for construction versus decorating?
00;48;41;15 – 00;49;01;19
Renee Biery
I’d love to give you a very simple answer, but so much of it is in the variables of that specific project. Just a quick example. If I’m doing if I am building the team and we’re doing a primary bathroom, I know that that’s going to run probably 12 weeks. I know that it’s my team. I know how we work together.
00;49;01;19 – 00;49;19;04
Renee Biery
I know my role in it is going to be a little bit more hands on, because my contractor loves it, that I run most of the issues versus a new build where I am a member of a team. They will be doing certain things. They’ll be doing the scheduling of it. Now I’m at every meeting. I’m assisting with all of that.
00;49;19;06 – 00;49;49;15
Renee Biery
One client may be dual working and I maybe see her once a month. The other one comes to every meeting. So to Dina’s point, it does depend on the variables. And that’s also why I don’t lose money on my projects. Because if you do a calculation like I know there’s a very popular square footage price formula, the problem is that does not take into account the complexity of the design, the craziness of the client, the craziness of the contractor, and everything in between.
00;49;49;15 – 00;50;01;24
Renee Biery
And so what happens is maybe over the given year you equal out, but some jobs you’re under billing, some jobs your overbilling. I would much rather you be billing appropriately for every single project.
00;50;01;24 – 00;50;19;19
Audience Member
Two questions in one. I’m still struggling. I’m doing the flat fee in the beginning, but I’m also doing hourly after that. But I don’t have a good system and I don’t write things down, so then I don’t know what to charge later. So that’s the first question. And then I’m struggling with the fee for to pay the photography at the end.
00;50;19;19 – 00;50;29;23
Audience Member
Do you do your squid studying somehow and the flowers and the time and the accessory buying that I’m struggling with. Do you have anything that you can share?
00;50;29;27 – 00;50;49;16
Jamie Merida
A real important thing for me is you kind of do end up paying for a photographer, a stylist and flowers and all that. I currently where I live, spend about $3,500 a day for the photographer and the stylist, which is kind of, I think kind of about. Right. But the key thing that works for me is my stylist is also a writer.
00;50;49;19 – 00;51;14;09
Jamie Merida
So when it comes to getting us published, which we’re very fortunate to get published a lot, we send like the finished thing. I mean, it’s like story photographs ready to go, captions ready to go. And nine times out of ten, editors are like, thank you. Great. I’ll run that in three months. And that $3,500, if I get eight pages and, you know, southern home, I mean, you know, you’ve won the game.
00;51;14;09 – 00;51;24;16
Jamie Merida
So I mean, if you can afford to do that and you can make it so that you have a complete package for a shelter magazine editor, I mean, it’s the easiest way to win the game, in my opinion.
00;51;24;19 – 00;51;44;03
Renee Biery
I do not absorb the cost of photography. No, to me, it’s a part of the it’s part of my business model. It’s the cost of doing business. And to be honest, when when that client hired me, they looked at my photography. So think about that, right? They looked at all of my other clients. So again, Mrs. Jones for Mrs. Jones, she’s been under a lot here.
00;51;44;05 – 00;51;44;16
Rebecca Hay
Jones.
00;51;44;16 – 00;52;10;23
Renee Biery
But that’s you know, so I will build that in. Now to Jimmy’s point. You know, maybe it rolls into a second day and okay, so maybe I didn’t I didn’t count on that because the job was so amazing. I wanted, you know, for extra rooms. But again, there’s enough baked in that that I will be covered. And then as far as flowers, I there’s someone here from locally, I go to a local florist who I’ve known for years, and I went in the first time I was like, I’m going to buy all this.
00;52;10;23 – 00;52;30;04
Renee Biery
She’s like, oh God, you don’t need to buy this. Bring it back tomorrow. I’ll have it all fluffed and ready to go. So a relationship. My tip I always leave something fabulous for my homeowner as a thank you. So of course I’m buying something, but I might end up with an entire truckload full of stuff and I might leave three things.
00;52;30;06 – 00;52;36;23
Renee Biery
So maybe 200 bucks, right? And I do style my own. Could I maybe not.
00;52;36;25 – 00;52;45;05
Rebecca Hay
I would just what? I need to be clear here, you’re not charging your client directly for the photo shoot, are you? Is there like a line item that’s like $3,500.
00;52;45;08 – 00;52;45;21
Rebecca Hay
Or you just.
00;52;45;21 – 00;52;46;17
Dina Holland
Know I’m going to photograph.
00;52;46;18 – 00;53;02;00
Rebecca Hay
This? So you’re absorbing the cost? It’s a marketing cost. Yeah. It’s a I was going to say it is a marketing. It is a marketing line item in your budget. And if you can budget for the year ahead and say how many photo shoots do you think I’m going to need based on projects finishing, you can budget for that.
00;53;02;00 – 00;53;09;02
Rebecca Hay
And then maybe I guess what you’re saying is, okay, well, this project, let’s just charge $1,000 more or $3,500 more, okay?
00;53;09;04 – 00;53;25;12
Dina Holland
Also, if you’re in the very beginning, you need to be really strategic about what you photograph and what you don’t photograph. Not everything needs to have an investment. A photographer, stylist, some of it is just an iPhone photo of styling. And it’s cute. Some of it is. It’s not. It’s a beautiful project. It’s spectacular. But I already have a blue kitchen on the portfolio.
00;53;25;12 – 00;53;35;29
Dina Holland
I don’t need to shoot that. It’s so you have to be thinking about it that way. Some of it is this isn’t my style, but we don’t have anything on the portfolio that looks like this. So I guess I should probably photograph this very bland room.
00;53;36;02 – 00;54;03;00
Rebecca Hay
So Susie’s question is how do you calculate a retainer? The amount of money you take up front? I can tell you that we have done it two ways. I thought I was being really clever, and I told clients in a contract it’s between 2 and 3% of the cost of the the furnishings. That kind of kicked me, knocked me over because we got to the end and I said I needed more money because we’d stored the furniture for so long because the client had wanted this consignment piece and needed to be refinished.
00;54;03;00 – 00;54;23;18
Rebecca Hay
And I had said, well, this means it’s going to be, you know, in storage longer. And they said, that’s fine. We don’t need it right away. I should have been more upfront with my communication. And so when we burned through the $2,000 and I went to the client for more money, they turned around and said, why didn’t you know that this was going to be more money?
00;54;23;18 – 00;54;30;10
Rebecca Hay
You do this for a living. We thought you were a professional, Rebecca. We’re very. Didn’t I know?
00;54;30;10 – 00;54;31;26
Rebecca Hay
Right.
00;54;31;29 – 00;54;52;13
Rebecca Hay
For those who are listening, Dina Holland just kicked the air. So I switched that quickly, and I thought, I want to use my discretion to Jamie’s point. And now look back at previous projects, and I’ll do kind of an estimate. Okay. What do I think? You know, depending on if it’s decorating or renovation, I find decorating projects.
00;54;52;13 – 00;55;16;23
Rebecca Hay
You need more money in retainer because there’s some miscellaneous incidentals that show up like a little extra shipping, free from profit. I’m like, why did they tell me that was going to be charged or the duties that I live in Canada? Sometimes that comes and I don’t expect it. And so I always on the side of caution and I take it as, like 2000, 5000 and it just looks back on past projects and I say, okay, how much should we collect on that last project?
00;55;16;27 – 00;55;35;10
Rebecca Hay
Did we have to go back to them for money? My goal is to have extra money at the end. So in the end, I’m writing the client a check as like, I thank you for doing that. Oh, by the way, here’s, you know, $500 back and they then it leaves a really nice feeling in their stomach. Yeah. It says a really crummy feeling for me when my team is like you need to write them a check for 13.
00;55;35;12 – 00;55;40;12
Rebecca Hay
I’m like, what, $3,000? I don’t have that. Okay, one more question.
00;55;40;12 – 00;56;01;26
Rebecca Hay
So I want to talk to you about wrangling clients because I’ve had a lady that has changed her mind like six times and we’ve been on a journey and we finally found a place that we’re going to go. But I’ve been billing hourly. I didn’t do a flat fee, so everything’s cool. But I recently heard that you have to make good clients.
00;56;01;26 – 00;56;15;15
Rebecca Hay
It is your job to wrangle them. So I put in my contract because of this lovely client that you get to changes per design. And after that, I built, you doubled. Whoa, whoa.
00;56;15;16 – 00;56;17;18
Rebecca Hay
You are such a baller.
00;56;17;18 – 00;56;35;01
Rebecca Hay
That’s a honey, I ain’t got time for this. Okay, so I wanted to ask you guys your opinion on somebody. That’s a repeat. They just can’t make up their mind. How do you handle that? And then also setting boundaries. So when they, you know, they want to holler at you after 9 p.m., it’s a weekend. I just ignore them.
00;56;35;01 – 00;56;39;10
Rebecca Hay
But I just didn’t know. In terms of a professional standpoint, what is your take on that?
00;56;39;17 – 00;56;49;01
Dina Holland
Have you built her for the time? Because usually for me you have and she just needs paying the bill. Yeah, because I’ll find you $27,000 if you want to get a bill.
00;56;49;03 – 00;56;50;13
Jamie Merida
I agree with you completely.
00;56;50;15 – 00;57;07;19
Dina Holland
You know what I’m saying? Hours and hours. I will spend all day, every day if you’re going to pay it, usually for me, oftentimes will be in the office and I’m like, oh my gosh, take forever. I was like, let me send the first invoice because that that quiets down real quick when they start to see like, oh, because it’s in my contract, I don’t respond to text or texting is an inadequate form of communication.
00;57;07;19 – 00;57;18;05
Dina Holland
All of that. But we all know clients sit down on their couch at 9 p.m. after putting their kids to bed, and that’s when they start. Right. Exactly. That’s in the invoice 15 minutes. We were watching Love is Blind and here we are texting I don’t know.
00;57;18;06 – 00;57;23;03
Rebecca Hay
Like that’s in the invoice.
00;57;23;05 – 00;57;33;05
Dina Holland
But that’s interesting that she keeps saying it even even though the other thing we do sometimes often is in the very beginning I talked to clients about what is actionable feedback. You can’t just say I don’t like it.
00;57;33;07 – 00;57;34;15
Jamie Merida
Yeah. What don’t you like about.
00;57;34;16 – 00;57;45;05
Dina Holland
Like it when I see it? Actionable feedback looks like I don’t like the shape. It’s too short for me. The pattern is too busy. It’s a lot darker. That’s good. It’s not. I don’t like it, but I’ll know it when I see it.
00;57;45;05 – 00;57;46;04
Jamie Merida
No, that doesn’t work.
00;57;46;05 – 00;57;47;06
Dina Holland
That’s not actionable.
00;57;47;09 – 00;57;49;14
Renee Biery
That’s what that means. Making a good.
00;57;49;14 – 00;57;50;21
Dina Holland
Client. Yes.
00;57;50;23 – 00;58;06;26
Renee Biery
Giving them parameters. Because honestly, it may be the most of the time. It’s the first time they’ve ever worked with a professional and they’re not even really sure how to do it. Right. And so you need to take the lead and say, so these two revisions, what does that really mean? What does that look like. And I give you 40 revisions and that’s round one.
00;58;06;29 – 00;58;24;05
Renee Biery
The answer is no. You know. And that’s that’s so you need to create the boundaries that you’re willing to work within. And to be honest, clients like it because then they know like, oh, okay, now I get what I’m supposed to say. One last thing is when a client says, I don’t know, I like it when I see it, I counter that.
00;58;24;06 – 00;58;40;03
Renee Biery
Then tell me what you don’t like. Yeah, everybody knows what they don’t like. Like I hate paisley. No, I personally don’t, but I hear that a lot. And you know, they know exactly what they don’t like. Or I’ll say, put together a Pinterest board and tell me which things you don’t like. You don’t have to tell me what it is in that photo.
00;58;40;04 – 00;58;43;21
Renee Biery
We’ll go through that together. They’re always like, oh yeah, got it.
00;58;43;24 – 00;58;44;07
Rebecca Hay
One more.
00;58;44;07 – 00;58;45;24
Rebecca Hay
Good question. Yes.
00;58;45;28 – 00;58;49;17
Renee Biery
Good generalization. Can you give us a range for hourly rates.
00;58;49;17 – 00;58;52;08
Rebecca Hay
From a newbie designer? Do we love the designer?
00;58;52;08 – 00;59;06;22
Jamie Merida
Our fantasy rate is $200 an hour that we then discount from pretty much to everybody because it sounds good. And so you usually charge 200. I’m going to charge 150 because you’re doing a big project. I mean, so that’s kind of our fantasy number that we’ve kind of landed on.
00;59;06;25 – 00;59;10;16
Dina Holland
I just raised my rates, because I want to,
00;59;10;19 – 00;59;13;03
Rebecca Hay
Not and if you can get it.
00;59;13;08 – 00;59;34;10
Dina Holland
Well, here’s what I Kimberly said. If you aren’t with Kimberly, she’s fabulous. She said it on that first trip, and I’ve repeated a million times. If you’re building a client 175 an out, you don’t think they pay you 195 an hour, right? Of course they would. Of course they would. Right. Like when I talk about doubling it, but like I was 225 an hour for design, 175 an hour for project management, 135 an hour for procurement.
00;59;34;10 – 00;59;48;14
Dina Holland
We’ve just gone up to 295. And so it’s like you can adjust from there. When I started, I was $75 an hour. And a client who which was fabulous. I’m still working for her today. She was like my number one marketing machine in that town. We finished her whole house and she goes, you’re too cheap.
00;59;48;16 – 00;59;52;01
Rebecca Hay
You’re you need to charge me. But she let me finish.
00;59;52;01 – 00;59;52;26
Dina Holland
The whole house. Of course.
00;59;53;00 – 00;59;56;26
Renee Biery
Well, of course she. You’re too cheap for everyone else.
00;59;56;29 – 00;59;57;15
Dina Holland
But thank you.
00;59;57;19 – 00;59;58;27
Rebecca Hay
But you’re.
00;59;58;29 – 01;00;00;13
Rebecca Hay
Rene. What’s your hourly?
01;00;00;16 – 01;00;14;28
Renee Biery
So I don’t have one anymore. And to the woman who said she does a flat and then an hourly. I didn’t do this because a friend of mine did. And she said, what happens is then it’s in your contract. So then they start calculating back and they’re like, wait a minute, you think it’s going to be 52 hours?
01;00;15;00 – 01;00;38;08
Renee Biery
Who do you think you are? And you’re like, girlfriend, I’ll be lucky if it’s 52 hours, right? So I’d be very careful doing in my opinion, doing a flat fee. And then you may have an internal hourly rate, but I wouldn’t necessarily communicate it because they will automatically start calculating it out. So I was 225 before I went flat in my head when I doing my own calculations.
01;00;38;08 – 01;00;52;04
Renee Biery
I’m closer to 275 now, but my staff isn’t. I mean, I do, you know, I have a tiered system, but I again, don’t share that with a client. I did that once. I had it on my contract and they’d be like, can the junior designer work on that for me?
01;00;52;07 – 01;00;53;02
Dina Holland
Oh, don’t.
01;00;53;05 – 01;00;59;00
Renee Biery
Don’t do that. You know, you’re my junior designer. Cannot. She might be, but I’m not telling you that.
01;00;59;02 – 01;00;59;27
Dina Holland
That’s exactly right.
01;01;00;05 – 01;01;26;12
Rebecca Hay
I think it’s also really important to note we always compare ourselves by hourly rate. Oh, well, she’s charging 2.95 and he’s charging 150 and she’s charging 225. You don’t know how many hours they’re billing for. So it’s really about the total sum. So I charge 225 an hour really doesn’t mean anything. I don’t charge hourly. If I do out of scope work, I will bill that to my clients if they add something on.
01;01;26;15 – 01;01;45;25
Rebecca Hay
But it’s more important to understand what is the what are you charging for a kitchen right now? What are you what did you charge for that last project? That to me is more telling than the hourly. So just don’t get too caught up in well, if she’s charging two 5250 but maybe she charged bills ten hours for a project that you would build to, I don’t know, 20 hours for.
01;01;46;03 – 01;01;55;05
Rebecca Hay
So that is I just want to remind everyone, it’s so easy to compare ourselves based on an hourly, but it’s really about the number of hours you’re going to be billing.
01;01;55;08 – 01;02;04;13
Renee Biery
And to Rebecca’s point where you live matters. Oh yeah. Right. I’m in Mid-Atlantic. I started my career in New York City when I left my last.
01;02;04;13 – 01;02;05;27
Jamie Merida
Job from New York.
01;02;05;29 – 01;02;08;24
Renee Biery
Like in 2000, I was 295 an hour, right?
01;02;08;28 – 01;02;09;16
Jamie Merida
Yeah.
01;02;09;19 – 01;02;30;06
Renee Biery
I started my own business. I dropped to 75. Humbling. But, you know, so you really need to to make sure you’re not to Rebecca’s point, going. Well, when we heard it today, I’m now going to be 295 an hour. But also during Covid, I kept raising my prices. And guess what? No one question it. So I raised it twice.
01;02;30;13 – 01;02;32;28
Renee Biery
Right. And you know, you’ll find that sweet spot.
01;02;33;01 – 01;02;34;01
Rebecca Hay
Yeah, absolutely.
01;02;34;01 – 01;02;36;28
Dina Holland
When the phone stops ringing, you’re like, all right.
01;02;37;00 – 01;02;39;13
Renee Biery
That’s your sweet spot.
01;02;39;15 – 01;02;41;14
Rebecca Hay
This is it. Amazing. Can we please have a big.
01;02;41;14 – 01;02;49;03
Unknown
Round of applause for our panelists?
01;02;49;05 – 01;03;15;23
Rebecca Hay
Okay, so guys, I am recording this outro back in the studio after I’ve returned from High Point and I’ve had some time to reflect on the panel and my biggest takeaways. And I think, well, first of all, everyone’s biggest like moment was when Jamie said he’d use a contract. We had a lot of conversations over cocktails after the panel about that, because it just he just kind of like sent shockwaves through all the designers there.
01;03;15;26 – 01;03;46;02
Rebecca Hay
But my other big takeaway is that we are all just frickin figuring it out right? It doesn’t matter where you’re at on your business, you’re still having something to learn. And I think it’s really interesting that we had this panel on the heels of my mastermind in Nashville, where I was with other very successful online business owners. And yet, despite their success and the hundreds of thousands of followers many of them have on Instagram, which totally blew my mind, I realized that they’re just like me.
01;03;46;05 – 01;04;17;18
Rebecca Hay
We all share so much more in common than we even realize. We are all just at different stages of the game, but we’re trying to figure it out. And I think by coming together and sharing, we learn so, so, so much. So I absolutely freaking loved hosting that panel. I would love to do more panels like that, or even just come and speak to an audience of designers and share what I have learned, because there’s so much power when you’re in person.
01;04;17;21 – 01;04;35;28
Rebecca Hay
So if you guys know anyone who would love to, host panel, co-host a panel with me, like a vendor or supplier, and I would love to connect. Connect with them. Send us an email. Hello, at rebecca.com I would love to go back to High Point in spring, maybe do multiple panels on different topics. I think it’d be really fun to talk about all those things.
01;04;35;28 – 01;04;54;01
Rebecca Hay
Marketing, finance, customer service, process, you name it. Anyways, I would love to hear from you. Send me a DM on Instagram. Let me know what you thought of the panel. Were you there live? If you were there live and you heard this recording, did you hear it differently the second time? I bet you did. I would love to hear what your takeaway was with that note.
01;04;54;08 – 01;05;06;11
Rebecca Hay
I’m going to go. All right, guys, I’ll see you soon. The Resilient by Design podcast is produced by Vera marquez, edited by Abby KTLA and hosted by yours truly, Rebecca.
01;05;06;11 – 01;05;06;18
Rebecca Hay
Hey.
