From Residential Burnout to Commercial Success: How To Love Interior Design Again

If you’ve ever questioned whether your interior design career is truly fulfilling—or if residential clients have left you emotionally drained—this episode is for you.

In this inspiring conversation, Rebecca chats with a seasoned designer who made the bold leap from high-end residential design to medical and dental offices. Tired of managing emotional clients, constantly troubleshooting, and feeling undervalued, Leslie Abner of LA Studio found new life in commercial design and a new niche that offered structure, satisfaction, and scalable success.

They explore the emotional toll of residential work, how commercial projects offer creative freedom with less stress, and what it really takes to pivot your business model. Plus, Leslie shares how she structured her flat-fee pricing, what consultants you need to know in the medical field, and why this might be the most overlooked niche in design.

Whether you’re ready for a big pivot or just craving more fulfillment, this episode will help you rethink what’s possible in your design career.

episode highlights

1. What burnout really looks like in a residential interior design career

2. How commercial design shifted everything—from timelines to profit

3. Pricing insights: flat-fee models that actually work

4. The difference in client expectations between residential and medical/dental

5. How she marketed herself into a niche and started speaking at national events

6. Writing a novel about the interior design world—and the parallels to real life

7. Why courage is the secret ingredient to any reinvention

Episode Resources

• Learn more about Leslie at her website and follow her on Instagram here.
• Get the Book: “Renovation” by Leslie Abner

Read the Full Transcript ⬇️

00;00;00;00 – 00;00;18;19
Leslie Abner
If you would hire an interior designer and you would trust that they can deliver, you know, and let go a little bit of whatever preconceived notions you have about color or pattern and, and just let it go a little bit. You can have the most spectacular design ever. All right.

00;00;18;21 – 00;00;27;14
Rebecca Hay
I’m Rebecca Hay and I’ve built a successful interior design business by trial and error, podcasts, online courses, and so.

00;00;27;14 – 00;00;29;16
Leslie Abner
Many freaking books.

00;00;29;19 – 00;01;00;04
Rebecca Hay
Over the last decade, I’ve grown from an insecure student to having false starts to careers. And now I’m finally in the place where I want to be. Throughout my journey, it’s been pretty obvious that I’m passionate about business and helping other entrepreneurs do the same. Each week, I’ll share tangible takeaways from my own experience and the experiences of other badass women to help you build your confidence and change your business.

00;01;00;06 – 00;01;24;25
Rebecca Hay
Hey hey hey, it’s Rebecca, and you’re listening to Resilient by Design. Today I have an incredible podcast guest. We are talking about pivoting from residential to dental and medical offices with Leslie Abner. Leslie has been doing this for 23 years. We have a funny moment at the beginning of the podcast, where she shares the year that she started her business, and then I share where I was at in that year, and we kind of blew both of our minds.

00;01;24;26 – 00;01;51;25
Rebecca Hay
She is the youngest looking designer who’s been in 23 years of business. I tell you that. But she is an incredible resource. She founded L.A. studio 23 years ago. She graduated from Cornell and pursued interior design at the New York School of Interior Design graduate School. And then prior to establishing her studio in 1999, Leslie spent several years working for major fashion houses, which is so cool.

00;01;51;28 – 00;02;14;16
Rebecca Hay
She learned the value of collaborative approach with clients and engineers and contractors, and how to ensure extraordinary results. Leslie talks in today’s episode about the shift she made from residential design to where she’s at today with commercial doing medical offices, dental offices. It’s a fascinating conversation. We really get into the nitty gritty about, like, how do you price that?

00;02;14;22 – 00;02;34;17
Rebecca Hay
What does the process look like? And she started without any experience in commercial. So I think it’s going to be an inspiring episode for all of you. At the end, we talked about some of the mistakes people make when they’re designing this type of space. She is just such a phenomenon. You’re going to love this conversation with Leslie.

00;02;34;19 – 00;02;39;13
Rebecca Hay
Well, welcome to the podcast, Leslie. I’m very excited to have you here today.

00;02;39;14 – 00;02;42;07
Leslie Abner
Thank you so much. I’m very excited to be here.

00;02;42;13 – 00;02;52;26
Rebecca Hay
Why don’t we just dive right in? I have so many questions for you about your LA studio and like, your whole career is so fascinating. Why don’t you introduce yourself a little bit to our listeners?

00;02;52;29 – 00;03;01;19
Leslie Abner
My name is Leslie Abner. I’ve had my own interior design firm since 1999. What? A lot of years ago.

00;03;01;20 – 00;03;14;16
Rebecca Hay
Okay. Stop. I’m sorry. How is that possible? You look so young. You look like you’re my age. And I graduated from high school in 2000. This is not possible. No, this is not possible. I can’t believe that. What is your magic?

00;03;14;21 – 00;03;37;18
Leslie Abner
Thank you. I have three daughters. I think they they, you know, won’t tolerate me being anything. But you know their little pet to make their mom cooler. Listen, in the business that we’re in. You know, we appreciate beauty. We appreciate details. So I think that for many of us, it it runs through our throughout our entire life, not just our home and our business.

00;03;37;21 – 00;03;41;24
Rebecca Hay
Absolutely. Oh my gosh, 1999. So you know everything.

00;03;41;26 – 00;04;07;05
Leslie Abner
So I don’t know. I tried I worked for some interior designers in New York City. And finally I realized I can do this. And people were coming to me and I at the time I was living in Manhattan, I built a really nice business that was predominantly residential. I was I don’t know if for some reason I was doing a lot of bachelors, a lot of single guys who just didn’t know what to do, and they would hand me the checks and say, help, I need help.

00;04;07;05 – 00;04;27;16
Leslie Abner
And it was great. It was such a great experience. And as my life continued and I moved to the suburbs of New York, I, you know, my business. I depending on the situation with my children, I would dial it back, I would dial it up, I would dial it back. I was kind of like ebbing and flowing. You know, I always was asked to do a natural transition.

00;04;27;16 – 00;04;48;00
Leslie Abner
Can you do my husband’s office? Can you do my office? And then I started joining a networking group to kind of push that out a little bit more and explore that, because I was really losing faith in the residential interior design. I was exhausted from it. I felt like it was much more of an emotional, psychological agreement with the client rather than the design stuff.

00;04;48;00 – 00;05;14;22
Leslie Abner
It was just becoming hard. The industry had changed. You know, there’s Wayfair and there’s House and a lot of people feeling that they could do it themselves. Even when they did hire me, I felt like kind of undervalued. So I joined this networking group. I met with a bunch of people regarding more commercial line work, and there was a contractor there who just for a year, he was like, please come do some medical offices with me, please come to join us, said, I don’t know.

00;05;14;22 – 00;05;28;23
Leslie Abner
I don’t know that I know this world. I don’t know that I can do it. And finally he said, listen, there’s a job not far away from, you know, where you live, where your home office is. Just do the job and let’s say and then it just kind of took off from there. It’s been a very slow burn.

00;05;28;23 – 00;05;41;25
Leslie Abner
And now for the first time, I’m starting to lean into marketing and doing some public speaking and joining some more dominant networking groups in the medical and dental fields. And it’s exciting. It’s really exciting.

00;05;41;27 – 00;05;57;15
Rebecca Hay
Okay, what like that’s amazing. I want to go way back because you said so many nuggets there that I’m like, oh, amazing. You said when you were working with residential clients, it felt more like, I think these are your words, a psychological contract?

00;05;57;18 – 00;05;58;09
Leslie Abner
Yes.

00;05;58;11 – 00;06;15;20
Rebecca Hay
Can we talk about that for a minute? Because that just resonated with me, and I bet it resonated with a lot of the residential designers who are here, because I know designers, and I know that they often feel the residential ones feel undervalued. Exactly what you said they feel like, oh my God, this is so much work and the clients make it.

00;06;15;21 – 00;06;26;26
Rebecca Hay
It’s all more about dealing with clients than it is about picking the finishes, ensuring things are done right, like there’s such a juggle there. Talk to me about that experience. Like how did you come up with that term?

00;06;26;29 – 00;06;47;13
Leslie Abner
Well, Rebecca, I really think you just hit the nail on the head that I started realizing after so many years in the business that interior design is less about interior design and more about problem solving, problem solving with your clients emotional journey on that they think they’ve made a mistake with the decision decision or they can’t make a decision.

00;06;47;16 – 00;07;07;06
Leslie Abner
Problem solving with obviously in the supply chain there’s, you know, 20 people between when you choose the item and when it shows up at your door. So many people touch that item. There’s so much room for error that we have no control over yet. We’re being held accountable for that failure wherever it is in the system.

00;07;07;08 – 00;07;07;17
Rebecca Hay
Yeah.

00;07;07;19 – 00;07;32;16
Leslie Abner
So I just started analyzing what I really wanted to do, and I didn’t want to be doing problem solving anymore. I didn’t want to be doing that, and I didn’t ever realized it. But the commercial space is while there are constraints, I feel that the constraints sometimes challenge you to spark your your creativity even more because the constraints aren’t based on someone’s emotional feeling and ability.

00;07;32;16 – 00;07;53;04
Leslie Abner
The constraints are based on technical things, things that doctors need. They’re they’re just actual things that, you know, architecturally have to be done a certain way. And the doctors needed a certain way. It’s productivity at the end of the day. And the emotional part of it is how we make the patients and how we make the staff feel when they’re in that space.

00;07;53;06 – 00;07;57;21
Leslie Abner
And it kind of flips everything on its head. And I love that.

00;07;57;23 – 00;08;18;05
Rebecca Hay
Yeah. Oh, that’s so interesting. It’s so true. You know, I always say to designers the difference between residential and commercial and I’ve done I’ve not done a lot of commercial. I’ve done a little bit enough to see that there’s a big difference with residential. You know, you’ve got the clients being like, well that’s like that’s not the exact shade of blue that I was anticipate, you know, and then in commercial they’re like great.

00;08;18;05 – 00;08;20;15
Rebecca Hay
Yeah we like blue. And let’s move on to the next thing.

00;08;20;21 – 00;08;21;11
Leslie Abner
Yes.

00;08;21;11 – 00;08;23;02
Rebecca Hay
And it’s so different.

00;08;23;04 – 00;08;40;27
Leslie Abner
Yes, yes. It’s great because they’re so appreciative too. They love their space. And you know, it’s funny because I’ve built and designed three homes of my own over the years. And every single time people come in and have come into each one of those homes, they’ve said, oh my gosh, this is them. You know, they’re just over the top.

00;08;40;28 – 00;08;59;09
Leslie Abner
I can’t believe it. And I’m thinking to myself, yes, if you would hire an interior designer and you would be quiet and you would trust that they can deliver, you know, and let go a little bit of whatever preconceived notions you have about color or pattern and just let it go a little bit. You can have the most spectacular design ever.

00;08;59;10 – 00;09;00;05
Rebecca Hay
Yeah.

00;09;00;08 – 00;09;12;17
Leslie Abner
If you just let your designer do the same way that listen, when you go to the doctor, you don’t say to the doctor, you know what, I think you should really examine my eyes this way. It might be better like, you know, we don’t, but with designers, we do.

00;09;12;17 – 00;09;12;27
Rebecca Hay
Yeah.

00;09;12;28 – 00;09;26;23
Leslie Abner
People do. They? They input so much of their own stuff in it, and there’s sometimes a lack of, I don’t know if it’s trust or if it’s just the ability to let go. Having control over something. It’s a big challenge.

00;09;26;25 – 00;09;45;14
Rebecca Hay
Yeah. I think control is a big part of it. I mean, we live in a world where everyone is so A-type, so driven. I mean, we have so much information at our fingertips, right? So our clients know a lot and they’re interested. A lot of them are like interested in design. It’s like, no, I want the clients that don’t aren’t really interested, but they value it being nice.

00;09;45;16 – 00;09;46;20
Leslie Abner
Yes, yes.

00;09;46;26 – 00;09;53;26
Rebecca Hay
Not the ones that are like, can we go to the showroom? I just love fabric. I’d love to go and see. It’s like, no, you’re not taking you to grab it.

00;09;54;01 – 00;10;19;16
Leslie Abner
Yeah, exactly. And it’s an interesting relationship with a residential client, a very interesting, somewhat difficult, you know, hard to navigate. It’s like a marriage, you know, it’s it’s it’s hard. So I just started realizing that that was not my strong suit anymore. And my heart wasn’t in it. And this kind of fell into my lap, and it just worked out beautifully.

00;10;19;18 – 00;10;41;27
Rebecca Hay
So what would you say were some of the biggest learnings you have from this big, this is a big pivot, right? Yes. Residential, as we just sort of touched on, is very different. So what would you say that you learned from that pivot from residential into high end medical and dental? And then what advice would you give to others, like designers listening today who are kind of curious about that niche or looking to pivot and and reinvent their business?

00;10;42;05 – 00;11;04;26
Leslie Abner
Well, I think reinvention is you need the vision of what where you’re going. You need courage, right? You have to have the courage to trust your abilities, and that you’ll be able to find your way. And you need to have clarity about it. You need to be clear, because I think without those things, it can be daunting. And I think that you don’t step into it wholly.

00;11;04;26 – 00;11;29;11
Leslie Abner
And I think that’s important. And I you know, I also wrote this novel, which is fiction, but it’s about it’s called renovation. And it really has a dual meaning about renovating your life and renovating as an interior designer, because I think we’re constantly being challenged to renovate our own lives in a personal way, in a career way. And if you if you don’t do those things, you can find yourself in a situation where I was where I was kind of wasn’t happy.

00;11;29;11 – 00;11;48;11
Leslie Abner
I knew I was artistic, I knew I had ability, but it was not. I wasn’t in the right space anymore. I wasn’t utilizing it properly. I wasn’t fulfilled or happy with it. So it’s scary to do that. But I think you have to really evaluate, am I where I want to be? Am I doing the things I want to do?

00;11;48;11 – 00;12;04;27
Leslie Abner
Do I feel fulfilled, and do I feel like I have the the ability to to transfer this? And I think most will will say, yes, you know, and you just have to have kind of the courage and the, the willingness to withstand that and kind of go through that door, which is hard.

00;12;04;29 – 00;12;17;21
Rebecca Hay
So we have to talk about the book. I completely forgot to mention that in the beginning, this book is one of my team showed me, like your your foreman of the book. I’m like, this is so interesting. Like, is this a fiction? You wrote a novel?

00;12;17;23 – 00;12;36;12
Leslie Abner
Yes. It’s fiction. It’s a great summer read, so we’re in perfect time for it. I, you know, many years ago when The Devil Wears Prada came out and I read that book, I thought to myself, so interesting, because the interior design business is very similar. There’s all this crazy stuff that goes on and no one knows about it.

00;12;36;12 – 00;13;00;06
Leslie Abner
We don’t talk about it. You know, our business is to keep everything quiet. We don’t share what goes on with our clients. We have the opportunity to be a fly on the wall. Our clients forget that we are there and we see and hear things that nobody else does. And we do things that nobody else. How many times have you moved someone’s socks and underwear from one drawer to the other?

00;13;00;06 – 00;13;16;13
Leslie Abner
Because they were coming in and they got to get the thing, you know, we do. Or you’re on your hands and knees scrubbing the the, you know, the grout that’s on the bathroom floor because they’re going to come home and you’re like, we got, you know, you’re way out there with the tile guy, you know, with your arms deep in it and nobody hears about that.

00;13;16;13 – 00;13;35;00
Leslie Abner
So I thought to myself, I have so, so many interesting, eclectic, crazy stories, and I’d love to be able to share them in a way. And that was the beginning of it. And then once I put it down on paper, I realized, it’s so interesting. I really need to really embellish this in a very big way to make it interesting.

00;13;35;00 – 00;13;56;04
Leslie Abner
Because if you really think if you sit down and you watch a sitcom or a movie with kind of your reality hat on, you’re like, I don’t think somebody would say that. I know that’s a little far fetched, but we buy in because it’s fiction, we know it’s fiction, and we’re kind of along for the ride. So it kind of became a lot more interesting and nothing like my clients or my real life in the end.

00;13;56;04 – 00;13;57;17
Leslie Abner
But it’s fun. It’s fun.

00;13;57;17 – 00;14;00;08
Rebecca Hay
I love it. Will you write a sequel to it, do you think?

00;14;00;10 – 00;14;15;15
Leslie Abner
Potentially, yes, definitely. A lot of people have been asking about it because they really want to know what happens with the main protagonist in her life. So I think that there’s probably a good chance of it, and I’d love for it to be in media of some kind at some point. So we’re working on that as well.

00;14;15;18 – 00;14;25;01
Rebecca Hay
Oh my God, that’s so exciting. I can’t even imagine writing a like, writing a book is one thing, but then writing a fiction, like writing a novel is like a whole other skill set.

00;14;25;01 – 00;14;49;14
Leslie Abner
Yeah, it is, it’s, you know, it’s I feel so creative that it’s like bubbling over sometimes. So I’m kind of always like taking a pottery class or writing or, you know, because I just I need a way to have, you know, outlets for it. But I tell most people that writing a book is really 25% about actually writing, 25% about editing, which is a completely different skill set than actually writing a story.

00;14;49;18 – 00;15;13;10
Leslie Abner
25% going out there and pounding the pavement to find an agent, to find a publisher, and then the next 25% is selling it at the end. Afterwards, you have to market it. So I guess kind of like interior design. There’s a big parallel to that where one looks at, interior design objectively from the outside, and they think it’s one thing once you get into it, it’s really there’s a lot of hats we have to wear, right?

00;15;13;10 – 00;15;27;11
Leslie Abner
You have to be very organized. You have to be business oriented. You have to be people oriented. You have to work with your tradespeople, the subs. You have to be able to relate to them and work with them. You have to market yourself, you. It’s just the problem solving. So it’s a similar kind of thing.

00;15;27;19 – 00;15;44;25
Rebecca Hay
Yeah. It’s so funny. You know, at least when I was growing up, there wasn’t as much exposure to all these different careers and jobs. And, and what we saw was really what we saw on TV shows or movies and maybe the people around us, the parents around us. And so there wasn’t I really had no idea. And I’m sure people listening feel this way, too.

00;15;44;27 – 00;16;09;27
Rebecca Hay
I don’t know if this was your story, but becoming an interior designer like I was at 1,000% not aware of all the hats. I 100% thought I just need to come in and like, learn how to design. I’m going to learn AutoCAD like it’ll be so fun to do, like furniture, like I had no concept of all the other parts that were needed in order to run a successful design business, like I just had no idea.

00;16;09;27 – 00;16;21;05
Rebecca Hay
And even as a writer, you kids growing up are like, oh, I want to be a writer. I love to write, yes, but in today’s world, I mean, I guess you could have a really robust team that does all the marketing for you, but you got to find them.

00;16;21;10 – 00;16;22;06
Leslie Abner
Deep pockets and.

00;16;22;06 – 00;16;24;08
Rebecca Hay
You need deep pockets. Yeah.

00;16;24;09 – 00;16;49;10
Leslie Abner
Yes, absolutely. I think that there’s no way that I understood my career started that I was a textile and apparel design major at Cornell University, and I learned everything about textile science and draping and all these things. And I worked in the fashion industry for several years. And that’s not a great lifestyle. It’s not very lucrative. And I just saw, you know, the people above me.

00;16;49;10 – 00;17;06;13
Leslie Abner
And I was kind of like, that’s not where I want to be. So then I went back to school to get a graduate degree at the New York School of Interior Design, but still, I didn’t have there were no classes on business. There were no classes on billing, there were no classes on problem solving or marketing or how to engage with your client.

00;17;06;21 – 00;17;23;14
Leslie Abner
What’s appropriate, what’s not appropriate, how what you can expect, how to write a contract, what should be in your contract. You know, you have to be a self-starter and a self-motivated person to be in these industries because there’s no roadmap. No one’s helping you.

00;17;23;17 – 00;17;43;12
Rebecca Hay
It’s like school teaches us how to be a great employee. But beyond that, you know, if you want to go and do it yourself and be your own boss, there’s a whole gap in the education and that’s, you know, that’s where I noticed in my business, which is why I do the podcast, which is why I love my courses, because I realize that there’s it doesn’t take a lot to learn, like it’s not it can feel overwhelming.

00;17;43;12 – 00;18;00;11
Rebecca Hay
But as soon as you start to be in community with other designers and learn from others who’ve gone before you, you start to see, oh, well, if I just tweak my pricing this way, or if I just have this script to say to a client, and all of a sudden you feel more confident, it doesn’t take a lot to get there, but it is a gap in the education, for sure.

00;18;00;11 – 00;18;14;26
Rebecca Hay
And it’s still a gap. I see, because I see students coming into my programs right out of school, and there’s still that gap. But may not be as big as it once was, but it’s still there. Yeah. Can you talk about money. Yes.

00;18;14;29 – 00;18;15;16
Leslie Abner
Yes.

00;18;15;16 – 00;18;33;27
Rebecca Hay
Pricing. Because this is always something that designers are asking about and stressing out over. And I know for me I stressed many, many years how different is pricing your design fees in commercial to residential. And then would you be able to walk us through, you know, what is your business design fee model?

00;18;33;29 – 00;18;59;02
Leslie Abner
Yeah, I find it vastly different and a relief. The billing was so complicated. Complicated in every sense. Complicated. And how am I going to charge? What am I going to charge? And you know, I remember always feeling the pit in my stomach after I sent it out and being like, I hope they hope they go for that. You know, I hope I didn’t overprice, I hope I didn’t underprice they still have that a little bit, but then also just the billing, the the percentages and the sales tax.

00;18;59;02 – 00;19;18;12
Leslie Abner
And, you know, it’s it’s complicated. Now it’s a little bit easier because a lot of the design houses will charge your client directly and, and charge them sales tax so that you can like relinquish some of that it depending on what your fee structure is in the commercial world. I’ve gone to flat fee. I have one fee, I mean one upset fee.

00;19;18;12 – 00;19;34;07
Leslie Abner
It depends on the size of the project, where the project is, how many site visits, all those kind of things, how big it is, how many square feet you know, how difficult I think the client is going to be in the situation. Also how much they’re going to need. It’s amazing because they’re not stressed about it and I’m not stressed about it.

00;19;34;07 – 00;19;52;26
Leslie Abner
It’s been decided upfront. You know, I think all of us will admit that our clients end up with the better end of the stick every single time, because we never say no because we are invested. We want it to look good. It is a reflection upon our reputation. And because of that, we always are going that extra mile.

00;19;52;26 – 00;20;17;00
Leslie Abner
You know, there’s never a stopping point, really, unless it becomes really egregious. So I just feel good about it because I feel compensated in it. And I like the flat fee because the client isn’t watching the clock all the time or anxious. And on top of that, I’ve kind of my new business model that I’m now marketing I’m working towards is like, I would rather not be at the very the highest end of the price point with my competitors.

00;20;17;06 – 00;20;35;10
Leslie Abner
I’d rather do volume, so I’d rather have more projects because they’re much more manageable than residential, because there’s not all those like nooks and crannies. And a lot of times the contractors do it. I’m specifying things and the contractors purchasing the contractors is installing. So the oversight is is a little bit different.

00;20;35;16 – 00;20;53;07
Rebecca Hay
That’s so interesting. I’ve never heard anyone say that you’d rather have volume. This is blowing my mind, Leslie, because I well, because because okay, I’m like in my brain, right? I was like, firing on all cylinders because in residential, you’re right. There are so many nuances.

00;20;53;07 – 00;20;57;01
Leslie Abner
You can’t do volume in residential, it’s almost impossible.

00;20;57;01 – 00;21;15;12
Rebecca Hay
When we would have like, let’s say 15 projects on the go at the height of like our busiest. It was exhausting because you’re bouncing back and forth. You’re thinking, hey, what does this client need? And you’re right, it’s all those 15 personalities. It’s, oh, this, this surprise happened on the site, and now we’ve got to go. It’s like.

00;21;15;15 – 00;21;21;10
Rebecca Hay
And my goal has always been fewer projects, which means fewer people to work with.

00;21;21;11 – 00;21;22;06
Leslie Abner
Exactly.

00;21;22;06 – 00;21;33;26
Rebecca Hay
And larger scale because it’s almost like it’s less work but more money. But in commercial, it’s sounds like it’s very different.

00;21;34;01 – 00;21;53;25
Leslie Abner
Yeah, it’s completely different. And it’s very structured, you know, because we have site meetings that, you know, a site meeting is called by, you know, either the contractor or the dental consultant or medical consultant, and everybody has to be there. There’s none of this, you know, there’s none of this tradesmen being like, I don’t know, I’m not sure I got to do this.

00;21;53;25 – 00;22;10;25
Leslie Abner
You know, somebody has this happen. I have, you know, there’s there’s really none of that. There’s there’s authority and structure involved in it and there’s deadlines. There’s very, very strict deadlines these doctors need to be in. They need to be up and running by certain time. Every day is a dollar. We really have to be aware of it.

00;22;10;25 – 00;22;18;24
Leslie Abner
So it’s tight schedules very focused for shorter periods of time. There’s none of this lingering. There’s none of that.

00;22;18;26 – 00;22;41;16
Rebecca Hay
Oh my god. The designers listening are like yes please I want this. Yeah. That’s so interesting. I hadn’t thought about that. You’re right. It is tight timelines because it’s money. They’re literally burning money. They’re paying rent. They need to get things up and running. So it must make it a little bit easier and more lucrative for a designer like you, because you can really anticipate how much time you and your team are going to put into it.

00;22;41;19 – 00;22;55;27
Rebecca Hay
It’s not like, well, I think it’s going to take six months. And now meanwhile, 18 months later and you’ve charged a flat fee and you’re basically running on fumes because you know, the opening date and those might shift a little, but they’re not going to be the way it is. And residential.

00;22;55;29 – 00;23;13;06
Leslie Abner
Exactly. And the biggest things are usually done in the beginning, like all the work has to be done in the very beginning. You know, there’s some walkthroughs, obviously, where we tweak things, we see things that don’t really work or the doctors like, I need a little wider here or there, but in general everything has to be specified. It really needs to go out early.

00;23;13;06 – 00;23;34;09
Leslie Abner
Their renderings are done very early and you know those. I have someone else do because I can’t keep up with the technology. So all that, you know, all the cad that I studied and toiled over was out the window. So when you form a team, everybody kind of knows what they’re doing. We have the deadlines. They have to agree to it very quickly because we need to get to the other side.

00;23;34;11 – 00;23;35;21
Rebecca Hay
What does your team look like today?

00;23;35;22 – 00;23;42;23
Leslie Abner
I have an assistant, you know, as needed. And I have someone who does all my renderings and drawings for me and then me.

00;23;42;26 – 00;24;03;09
Rebecca Hay
That’s it. That’s amazing. And that’s amazing. So when do you have the process with commercial? I’m just sort of curious because you said everything has to get designed up front. Do you do renderings first for conceptual, or do you wait until everything’s designed and specified before you have the renderings? And then do they sign off and then are you present throughout the entire build out?

00;24;03;11 – 00;24;10;11
Rebecca Hay
Do you have a limit to how many times you go to a site, or is it kind of unlimited? Just help us understand what that process is like in commercial.

00;24;10;13 – 00;24;27;09
Leslie Abner
I usually have a couple of initial design meetings. Doctors are not, you know, typically they’re like, I don’t really know. I’m a fish out of water. I have no idea what I’m doing here. Just I like blue or, you know, like it’s very it’s very little. You know, there’s usually a couple little things that they are specific about, but not too many.

00;24;27;11 – 00;24;50;03
Leslie Abner
So then I’ll gather some samples. Real life samples have some meetings on site and just show them. And if we’re work going in the right direction, once they’ve kind of like softly approved everything we do full renderings prior to any sign off. Nine times out of ten there are no changes. And then we specify everything. I usually do something in Canva, which basically specifies everything.

00;24;50;03 – 00;25;12;07
Leslie Abner
Everything’s marked out. Everything has a style number link to the website where it can be purchased. I don’t really deal with the finances of it. It’s usually like a dental consultant that deals with it. So I mean, I can, but usually the dental consultant is who brings me in because they’re and, you know, they’re very involved in the process because dentists, it’s kind of like they’re hiring someone who’s like going to be their quarterback through it.

00;25;12;09 – 00;25;29;18
Leslie Abner
You know, someone’s going to help them with their loan, someone who’s going to help them with their real estate, someone who’s going to help them sign the lease, someone who’s going to help them find the contractor, the designer, someone to do graphics to design their logo, which I’m usually very involved in. So they’re kind of like the quarterback.

00;25;29;18 – 00;25;53;04
Leslie Abner
Then I report it to them as well as the client, and we work as a team. So all of that is done upfront. And then, you know, once construction starts, I usually put in my contract anywhere between 3 and 6 site visits. I also work all over the country. So obviously some contracts don’t have site visits. And those they dial back the fee on that a little bit because it’s not as much time.

00;25;53;06 – 00;26;11;02
Leslie Abner
But it’s interesting some, you know, sometimes I’m sure I know this is residential too. Sometimes I bid something out and I think that I didn’t get it because of price. And they’re like, oh no, the designer, they went with this, you know, $5,000 more. So sometimes I’m like, I don’t even know how they’re choosing or what they’re choosing or why they’re choosing.

00;26;11;02 – 00;26;24;08
Leslie Abner
So I just have to say, my lane and just, you know, he’s my work is my example. And and go with my model of wanting to do more volume and knowing that I’m in the right price point. Yeah, that’s how it works.

00;26;24;11 – 00;26;42;19
Rebecca Hay
I love that it’s so niche. Like what I’m hearing right now is this is so super niche that it’s becoming because, you know, designers are asking me all the time, how do I find clients? How do I find clients? Like, where are the clients? Like, how do you you know, how do you get to that place? And it’s like, you got to get really clear on who you need to connect with.

00;26;42;21 – 00;27;02;14
Rebecca Hay
Yes, we have a designer in our community who really wants to work with professional athletes, and she’s in Denver, Colorado, and somebody in our community shared a link with her. She was like, here, this is this. This company does all of the real estate transactions for the like, whatever team. I’m like, yes, that’s where you need to connect.

00;27;02;14 – 00;27;19;27
Rebecca Hay
So I’m hearing when you’re saying this, I’m like getting goosebumps. I’m so excited for this designer is these dental consultants. It’s like, you know, it’s not the dentists themselves who want to start their own practice. They’re not googling designers. Maybe they are, but they have a consultant helping them. So those are the people you need to build the relationships with.

00;27;19;27 – 00;27;20;07
Rebecca Hay
It’s like.

00;27;20;07 – 00;27;20;25
Leslie Abner
Yes.

00;27;20;26 – 00;27;27;06
Rebecca Hay
The people who are there in their world who are helping advise them. That’s where you need to be in front of.

00;27;27;08 – 00;27;47;25
Leslie Abner
Yeah. Once I decided that I really wanted to lean into this, I recently started working on the marketing part of it, which for me is, I mean, I really am totally in apps when it comes to I don’t even know where to begin. And so I joined this, networking group, that was, you know, dental consultants and I went to a couple meetings with people were phenomenal.

00;27;47;25 – 00;28;21;05
Leslie Abner
They embraced me. And now I’m working on doing public speaking at some of the conferences and continuing education conferences that they have. And just I now I’m working with the marketing person on just kind of like identifying who I need to talk to, how I’m going to get to them. So I’m really just embarking on all of that right now to really grow to the next level, because right now I have a nice steady stream that’s really comfortable and nice, but I want it to be a little uncomfortable and feel like I need to have another person or that I’m traveling more or, you know, I want I want it to be a little more

00;28;21;05 – 00;28;42;12
Leslie Abner
subtle. So I’m looking into that now. But it’s exactly what you said. It’s really identifying of who is it touching these people in who you know, who who can be a voice of saying, oh, I know somebody because that’s really the type of business we’re in, right? It’s it’s mostly referral because someone wants to know that, you know, that person 100%.

00;28;42;12 – 00;29;03;04
Rebecca Hay
It’s that’s exactly what it is. Everyone’s like, what are the marketing tactics? It’s like, honestly, get in front of the right people, get in the rooms. And it doesn’t mean you need to join the country club. But who do you know that’s working with these clients? Is it realtors? Is it custom builders? Like who can you like? You connected with that contractor early on and he brought you into this world.

00;29;03;07 – 00;29;05;28
Rebecca Hay
Yeah. It’s so much about people going.

00;29;06;00 – 00;29;16;28
Leslie Abner
Yeah, absolutely. And once you kind of unlock that, you can really go down that rabbit hole of just expanding it more and more and more. But like we said, it’s another hat.

00;29;17;04 – 00;29;36;29
Rebecca Hay
Totally another hat. And that’s why a lot of people I mean, in the early years, for me, I hired a publicist because I was like, how am I going to get featured in a magazine? How are people going to know who I am? Like, I’m in Toronto. It’s a busy market here. There’s a lot of designers, there’s a lot of noise, and it was expensive, but it really helped me.

00;29;36;29 – 00;29;43;23
Rebecca Hay
And I learned a lot from that experience. And I don’t work with one right now. But it was yeah, it’s a whole other skill set.

00;29;44;00 – 00;30;03;23
Leslie Abner
It’s hard to invest in your business. You know, sometimes you’re on that cusp of feeling like, do I have this money to invest in it? And what’s the ROI? And you don’t really know. You don’t really know. But marketing is is definitely at the next level these days. It’s not how it used to be ten, 15, 20 years ago, and it is worth the investment.

00;30;03;23 – 00;30;26;22
Leslie Abner
But you have to identify the right person for the job. Depending on someone who knows athletes, someone who’s in that world, you know, are there agents, are there people who knows? There’s just you have to find someone who’s in that world and knows that world to market you because, yeah, general marketing person is not going to understand the nuances of a professional athletes needs.

00;30;27;00 – 00;30;32;08
Rebecca Hay
Totally. And yeah, if you’re listening, you know, this episode’s for you, lady.

00;30;32;11 – 00;30;33;08
Leslie Abner
Rooting for her.

00;30;33;13 – 00;30;53;03
Rebecca Hay
Yeah. She’s awesome. So this has been such a great conversation. I don’t want to end without talking about just like, give us the juice. Like, what are some of the things that you see that are design mistakes that you see in dental offices? Because I know there’s some designers listening and they’re like, oh, I could do it. Like maybe they could avoid these mistakes.

00;30;53;10 – 00;30;54;00
Leslie Abner
Yeah.

00;30;54;02 – 00;31;00;23
Rebecca Hay
I don’t know. I’m just sort of curious. Now I’m going to go to the dentist. You’re going around. Actually, that reminds me, I do have to book my cleanings.

00;31;00;26 – 00;31;02;25
Leslie Abner
Well, I hope they have a beautiful office.

00;31;02;28 – 00;31;14;21
Rebecca Hay
I’m curious. Then we’ll circle back to that juicy question. But do you find that most of your clients are dentists or, you know, groups of dentists who are starting a practice, or are they have they been in business for a while and they want to refresh?

00;31;14;23 – 00;31;33;14
Leslie Abner
We have both. And and I also do medical, you know, in general, I’m doing an optometrist right now. I’m doing the gynecologists office right now. I think people want to provide a boutique experience. So they’re looking for that. But I have a mix. I have recently had a client who was in a tiny, tiny office. I don’t even know how they were working there.

00;31;33;14 – 00;31;51;17
Leslie Abner
And he had a massive business and he blew it out. And we built this unbelievably beautiful office. And, you know, now he’s thriving and he has triple the amount of exam rooms. And, you know, we have dentists sometimes that have been working for a practice for a few years. And they say, you know what, it’s time I want to go out on my own.

00;31;51;20 – 00;32;10;27
Leslie Abner
Some are within the family. The parents are retired, and the children are the ones who are going to take over the business. And we got to rip off that wood paneling back, you know, from the day. And it’s an industry. Medical is an industry. It’s coming a long way. But the design is needs to be there. You know, it needs to be.

00;32;10;27 – 00;32;47;26
Leslie Abner
You need to pay attention to it. Clients, you know, nowadays if you go into a periodontist, for instance, you could get a bill for $5,000 easily. You know, if you have a bridge and a root canal, you know, it’s it’s a lot of work. You need an implant. It’s a lot. And if you’re writing that check or you’re giving that credit card and you’re in an office that feels old and decrepit and dirty or makes you feel anxious, it doesn’t make you feel like you’re putting your trust in someone who values cleanliness, and who values organization, and who values quality, the quality of the light, the quality of the space, the comfort of the waiting

00;32;47;26 – 00;33;12;11
Leslie Abner
room or the exam room. And on the flip side, doctors can’t function and be as productive if their office is not well run and well laid out. If things are not in the right place, if they’re digging for things because they don’t have the proper storage, or their staff doesn’t have a quiet place that they can go and just sit for a minute when they have their break, you know, it really affects the the patient experience all the way around.

00;33;12;11 – 00;33;33;27
Rebecca Hay
Totally, totally. I’ve seen this firsthand very recently. My kids are now going to a new dentist. It’s specific for children here in Toronto, and they are amazing because you walk in, it’s beautifully designed. There’s a little play structure for the kids. The kids get excited to go there. They have, little gumball machines that you can like. They’re not full of gum, a little toys.

00;33;33;27 – 00;33;51;29
Rebecca Hay
Yes. Right. But it’s like the way they’ve set it up. Mind you, the acoustics are not good. I feel like they have too many hard surfaces as the designer, I’m like, this is so loud. Yeah, there’s that experience. And then there’s. I went to recently to a dermatologist where it was like old crowded. You’re waiting. The receptionist were so grumpy.

00;33;51;29 – 00;34;06;28
Rebecca Hay
They’re grouchy every time you’re there because no kidding, you’re in this tiny little room with all these patients all day long. Who knows where they go? They probably go to a windowless room for their break. Yeah, and as designers, we get it. But your surroundings are going to affect your mood, and that’s going to translate to your patients.

00;34;07;04 – 00;34;28;15
Leslie Abner
100%. And the bottom line is important. You know, like the you know, doctors are similar to interior designers. They are not taught how to run a business and how to have the proper billing and the technology and how to hire staff and how to manage staff. How do what do you do if one staff member is like the rotten egg and kind of like spoiling everybody else, but they’re really good employee.

00;34;28;17 – 00;34;50;02
Leslie Abner
So many things, that I’ve learned at these conferences that I go to and all of it is, is a value because they’re not taught this. So we need to help them along. The consultants help them along. I help them along in there. I think, you know, starting to realize that their space, that they work and they want to walk into a space every day to it’s their office every single day.

00;34;50;02 – 00;35;17;22
Leslie Abner
This is where they spend majority of their time. If that’s uncomfortable or depressing or the quality of the light, you can’t do your work properly with that. It takes its toll. And you know they may not realize it, but you can grow significantly more. And then your marketing, if you have this big, beautiful office that you’ve just built, all renovated, even if you renovate your existing space, freshen it up a little bit, change the kelvins and the lighting.

00;35;17;22 – 00;35;29;12
Leslie Abner
Make sure that the you know, if you don’t have windows, make sure that the pink color is lighter, that it’s not sucking in all the all the light you can then market that and people will respond.

00;35;29;14 – 00;35;33;25
Rebecca Hay
Absolutely. Okay. Let’s talk about the mistakes. What are some of those juicy mistakes you see.

00;35;33;27 – 00;35;55;19
Leslie Abner
Well dental is very specialized compared to medical because medical is dental. You need water lines. You need gas. You need you know there’s surgery going on. So those are some technical things that takes some time to learn. There’s a learning curve with that because you really need to be aware of that. You know the right questions to ask the doctor are you on the you prefer your tools on the right side or the left side?

00;35;55;19 – 00;36;17;25
Leslie Abner
You you know, little things like that kind of make a difference. Some of the mistakes that I see mostly with design is that they look at the design more like a clinical area, rather than a an area where you’re going to have people with emotions. So, you know, you don’t want it to feel like a hospital. Not everything should be white.

00;36;17;25 – 00;36;38;05
Leslie Abner
Add some color, have some fun. It’s okay to take some ideas from residential and pull it into the medical world. It’s okay. We can do that within the constraints of having, you know, the things that we need that are, you know, that are hygienic. We need certain things that are hygienic and we need certain things that are to code.

00;36;38;13 – 00;36;51;14
Leslie Abner
But even within that, you can still be creative. You can still add fun, it can still be exciting. And I think some of the mistakes are made when you lean too much towards the clinical part of it.

00;36;51;16 – 00;37;08;17
Rebecca Hay
Yeah. It’s like I keep thinking about this children’s sort of dental practice with all the hard surfaces and I’m thinking like I get it, it’s easier to clean, it’s sterile. But oh my God the sound in and we’ve got lots of children in there. Right. So yeah it’s very loud. There’s reasoning I know people like don’t like to use carpet tile anymore.

00;37;08;19 – 00;37;32;04
Rebecca Hay
Right. Maybe they do. But I mean, when I go to my dentist, oh, it is such a serene place. Like there’s, there’s carpet tile outside, not in the rooms where you’re having the work done, but wow, what a different Zen feeling. Night and day. And so I don’t know the practices and what’s design. What’s used in mental mental medical facilities now is quite different than was maybe 1015 years ago.

00;37;32;08 – 00;37;43;10
Rebecca Hay
And I get that hard surfaces are easier to clean. But it’s not an enjoyable experience for a parent when you’re sitting waiting. And there’s like so much sound in the background.

00;37;43;12 – 00;38;07;00
Leslie Abner
Yeah. And we and we have to address those issues. I’ve had pediatric practices that specify with children with special needs and, a lot of those children that are on the spectrum have a hypersensitivity to sound. And sometimes they wear earphones because of the sound of even like the equipment or the tools. So there’s, you know, certain situations where we have to be highly sensitive to that.

00;38;07;00 – 00;38;30;16
Leslie Abner
I mean, the things that I do to try and avoid that and wallpaper where I can the, furnishings in the patient lounge are always soft, you know, chairs, fabric. And I try and have, you know, a decent amount of it. So it’s not some, you know, it’s more soft rather than metals and things like that. We use LVP flooring, which is more like a rubberized flooring rather than a tile flooring.

00;38;30;23 – 00;38;56;16
Leslie Abner
So it’s kind of somewhere in between, you know, it’s not as quiet as a carpet would be, but it’s also not as reverberating as a ceramic tile would be or something kind of like that. So we do things like that to absorb some of the sound. Some of it is the space and the architecture of the space. So we may get a space that the ceiling height potentially could be 12ft, but I’m not going to put that all the way throughout because that’s going to affect my sound.

00;38;56;19 – 00;39;17;01
Leslie Abner
So we’ll drop it down. Also for cost situations, some will be a sheetrock ceiling, some will be a drop ceiling, you know, because they also need to get into the they need access to equipment in the ceiling sometimes too. So those ceiling panels also help a little bit with the sound. So I think the architect needs to be a little bit aware of the of the space.

00;39;17;01 – 00;39;25;11
Leslie Abner
And what’s going on because, you know, the higher ceilings and if there’s nothing there to grab it, I agree with you. It’s hard.

00;39;25;13 – 00;39;46;19
Rebecca Hay
You know, I feel like what we’re talking about is that mistake and we see it in residential too, where you just want it to look good. But there’s actually so many considerations. It’s so much more. It’s about functionality and it’s about, you know, noise canceling. And there’s so many different layers that we think about in residential. But maybe you also have to be even more hyper aware in that space in the medical offices.

00;39;46;19 – 00;39;57;10
Rebecca Hay
So interesting. Oh my God, I could talk about this all day. It’s so fascinating. I know my listeners are going to love this conversation. Before we wrap up today, do you have a last nugget of wisdom for our listeners?

00;39;57;18 – 00;40;15;18
Leslie Abner
One of the great things about writing my book was, you know, it’s called renovation and it has dual meeting. You can read it and it can be a light read, and you can feel like it’s all about renovating, an interior design. But if you want to dive a little deeper and have to be a little more cerebral, it’s, you know, really about renovating her life protagonist.

00;40;15;18 – 00;40;38;18
Leslie Abner
And I would say that take a minute and see, like, where in your life can you reinvent or renovate for it to be what you want it to be? You know, for you to feel appreciated by your clients, for you to feel compensated properly, that you feel that appreciation on a level that’s not just of someone saying, oh, good job, but also I’m paying you your worth, you know, for what you deserve.

00;40;38;18 – 00;41;03;23
Leslie Abner
And all those things need to align. So just have the courage to ask yourself those questions and not be afraid and have the courage to reinvent yourself. Your courage, you have to remember, is not in the absence of fear. Courage always has fear. Everyone has the fear. So you have to acknowledge that. But you say I have the fear, but I’m going to have enough courage to overcome that.

00;41;03;23 – 00;41;23;25
Leslie Abner
And I think that this whole business takes a lot of courage, interior design. Because you’re, you have to be self-motivated. You have to, you know, find your own way. There’s, you know, unless you’re working for a bigger firm or someone’s kind of giving you marching orders, and even then you still need to come up with your own creativity and your own style and your own way of communicating with clients.

00;41;23;25 – 00;41;34;10
Leslie Abner
So don’t forget yourself in all of it, and just keep reaching for that next renovation of of your own self and your own goals within this industry.

00;41;34;13 – 00;41;52;13
Rebecca Hay
I love that you don’t have to pivot the way that Leslie’s done it, right? Right. It’s not necessary to completely shift gears unless that’s what your calling is and you see that opportunity. It’s about where can we renovate like a renovation is not tear it down and build again. Right.

00;41;52;18 – 00;41;53;11
Leslie Abner
Exactly.

00;41;53;12 – 00;42;13;25
Rebecca Hay
A renovation you’re remodeling. You’re you’re adjusting. You’re making changes are shifting. And this is such great advice as designers can relate to this, right. Because this is what we’re doing all the time. Yes. Whether it’s a refresh of the furniture or you’re tearing down some walls, like where in your own business and life can you, can you renovate?

00;42;13;25 – 00;42;20;01
Rebecca Hay
Is it time to sort of maybe reinvent a little without throwing everything out? You know, baby, out with the bathwater, as they say?

00;42;20;01 – 00;42;37;16
Leslie Abner
Yeah, exactly. You know, you can hang on to so many things. It could be a small tweak and it could be, you know, like you were saying before, like really having the clarity of understanding what it is. What is the problem? You know, what? What’s the why, what’s the what’s the pain point. And once you can understand that, then you can address it.

00;42;37;16 – 00;42;53;06
Leslie Abner
And a lot of times it can just be a small thing. Like, you know what that that program for my building like that really is sit down and I want to bang my head. I can’t, you know what? Let me let me find a better way or let me see. Can I find somebody part time to maybe deal with this for me?

00;42;53;11 – 00;43;01;06
Leslie Abner
Just as something to try and make sure that you’re doing the best that you can for yourself.

00;43;01;08 – 00;43;20;01
Rebecca Hay
Yeah. And it could also be something like, maybe you’re offering every service known to man under the sign, like paying consultations, designer for a day. Let’s go shopping. I’ll do floor plans, like, sure. You want me to be on site? I’ll consult. Like that can be exhausting. Maybe it’s just getting clear on. Hey, maybe I don’t want to offer all of this.

00;43;20;06 – 00;43;40;24
Rebecca Hay
And I just want to do decorating. And I don’t actually love the renovation. Like, maybe you just need to lean in, like, it’s sometimes just leaning into that thing that lights you up. That maybe to your point, Leslie, there’s going to be fear that’s not going to disappear. But it’s the courage exists when there’s fear. Otherwise, you’re just doing something.

00;43;40;24 – 00;43;49;12
Rebecca Hay
You’re trying something new and it’ll probably not work. But it doesn’t matter. It’s like you got to try something new enough and hard enough and challenging enough for it to really push you forward.

00;43;49;15 – 00;44;09;29
Leslie Abner
Yeah. And I think that this industry, you know, a lot of us are so like I was saying before, we we want our work to look great and we want we sacrifice ourselves a little bit sometimes too much with our clients because we have so much personally invested in it. You know, we these designs are like our babies, you know, we really fall into that.

00;44;09;29 – 00;44;13;10
Leslie Abner
And it’s sometimes hard to navigate.

00;44;13;12 – 00;44;17;21
Rebecca Hay
Absolutely. Such great advice. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast today.

00;44;17;21 – 00;44;25;13
Leslie Abner
Thank you for your time. I really appreciate the invitation and I love your podcast and I’m so excited to see what’s next for you.

00;44;25;16 – 00;44;30;12
Rebecca Hay
Amazing. Likewise, can you let everyone listening know where they can find and follow you?

00;44;30;14 – 00;44;40;23
Leslie Abner
I’m on Instagram, which is Leslie Abner underscore interior underscore design or my website is Leslie Abner studio.com.

00;44;40;27 – 00;44;42;21
Rebecca Hay
And your book, where Can I Get Your book?

00;44;42;21 – 00;44;57;00
Leslie Abner
My book is available on Amazon and renovation. It’s called it has a bright pink color. It’s a great summer read. Really fun. And I think that your interior designer listeners will really get a kick out of it and relate to some of it.

00;44;57;05 – 00;45;03;00
Rebecca Hay
Absolutely. I cannot wait to read it myself. Oh my God. Well, I’m so excited. I’m so happy that you were here today. Thank you.

00;45;03;02 – 00;45;07;07
Leslie Abner
Thank you so much. It’s been a pleasure.

00;45;07;09 – 00;45;26;14
Rebecca Hay
Guys, how good was that episode with Leslie? Thank you so much, Leslie, for being my guest. I really enjoyed our conversation at the very end. That nugget of wisdom where we talked about how you can reinvent yourself or remodel or renovate yourself, you have to get her book. I cannot wait. As soon as I’m done recording this, I’m going to hop on over to Amazon.

00;45;26;14 – 00;45;42;28
Rebecca Hay
I’m going to get downloaded to my Kindle because I’ve got a lot of travels coming up this summer, and I want to be able to bring different books with me that is on my summer reading list, so I cannot wait to report back to everyone. I’m sure it’s going to be a fun read, especially since we get the idiosyncrasies of renovations so so well.

00;45;43;01 – 00;46;04;01
Rebecca Hay
But if you were a designer listening today and you have felt something’s got to change, or am I really doing this right? Maybe this is your sign. Maybe today’s episode is your sign to really take a look. Like look in the mirror at yourself, in your business and figure out where is an area that I could tweak. Is there an area I want to reinvent?

00;46;04;03 – 00;46;21;18
Rebecca Hay
Am I happy with how I’m doing? And maybe you are. Or maybe you’re just starting out and you’re like, Rebecca, that’s what I’m doing. Well that’s awesome. But for the rest of us, it might just be an opportunity, especially in these quieter months, to really think about where we want to take this next year. Now’s a good time to start thinking about it.

00;46;21;25 – 00;46;38;04
Rebecca Hay
All right. Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, it would mean so much if you could share it with a friend. Especially if you know anyone who’s looking at moving from residential to commercial. Or the opposite, this can be a really great listen for them. We’re on YouTube, so guys, go have a look on the tube. All right, that’s it.

00;46;38;04 – 00;47;05;00
Rebecca Hay
I’ll see you soon.